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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 993 of 2473

#9921 of 24723 Schrempp steps down, DCX steps up by 10% by ljflx

Jul 28, 2005 (7:55 am)

Ah the business side that Merc hates. Now just watch the major cost cuts and model cutbacks that are put into effect in the next 12 months. Big time changes are coming to Mercedes as everyone knows his strategy to please everyone (with Smart to the Maybach and model variants so numerous that most people don't even know they exist) has been a disaster financially but sat well with the purists. Autorags loved the widespread models, purists like Merc love to talk about it as a strength but the plethora of products was/is unmanagable and the financial markets (run by people who know business) cut the company's market value by 65% since 1999. Just watch as a much more conservative business plan is put in place, the company is redirected and probably prices are lowered at some point in the next 24 months. And remember it's MB that is the problem not Chrysler. It was interesting to hear CNBC cover the story and use the statement "Mercedes isn't the Mercedes of anything anymore".
 
By the way the stock rise of 10% comes on a bad earnings report. Cut through all the headlines and news and you see a 20% drop in operating income from a year ago.
 
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050728/germany_daimlerchrysler_schrempp.html?.v=13

#9922 of 24723 Re: Just for the heck of it here's the next level down [merc1] by ctsang

Jul 28, 2005 (8:22 am)

Replying to: merc1 (Jul 27, 2005 8:07 am)
merc1, knows like you don't know that Toyota pioneered and benchmarks quality control and just in time manufactoring.

#9923 of 24723 Re: Just for the heck of it here's the next level down [blckislandguy] by merc1

Jul 28, 2005 (12:37 pm)

Replying to: blckislandguy (Jul 27, 2005 4:52 pm)
MB dealers margins changed years ago, but I would agree that they aren't close to Lexus dealers when it comes to profitability because of that and the fact that they sell less vehicles through more dealers. Maybe the dealer in question was a smaller dealer, I don't know..and we surely don't have all the facts...too much assumption there for me to take that seriously. If things are that thin for a dealership they need to re-think staying in business.
 
M

#9924 of 24723 Re: Schrempp steps down, DCX steps up by 10% [ljflx] by merc1

Jul 28, 2005 (12:41 pm)

Replying to: ljflx (Jul 28, 2005 7:55 am)
I don't "hate" the business side at all. What gets me is this business side stuff being brought up (as an excuse) for any and everything when the discussion is about the physical "car" not the company. We can't talk styling, engines, suspension, safety or anything else without reading about what Toyota made last quarter, it’s the ultimate crutch/excuse for Lexus apologists eager to gloss over Lexus' faults.
 
We can talk about the business side too, I have no problem with that, but gee whiz when we're talking about handling what in the world does Toyota's earnings have to do with it? Nothing. That and the ridiculous notion that buyers walk into a showroom with Toyota's earnings on the brain is what I take issue with and consider being bunk.
 
M
 

#9925 of 24723 Re: Schrempp steps down, DCX steps up by 10% [merc1] by ljflx

Jul 28, 2005 (1:37 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Jul 28, 2005 12:41 pm)
The business side has a lot to do with building a performance car. If the business plan didn't include building performance cars than they don't get built - unless some emergency decision is made. There's hardly an emergency here. Remember the Japanese are as patient as the Germans are stubborn. It takes a lot to move either one off the base position they've taken. In that regard they have a lot in common.
 
As for Juergen I thought he had some good strategic visions on being a global player but he botched the execution badly. I still think buying Chrysler (where would they be without it now) was smart but they executed badly for years before they got it going. MB has become far too spread and lost sight of its core business plan and Mitsu was a disaster. They've addressed the first and last points and the big focus will be on MB going forward. The strong positive reaction was all centered around Zetsche (who seems to be a genuinely nice guy with an ordinary ego) reigning MB back in. It was probably emotionally overdone but this guy has done some great things. Freightliner seems to be doing very well now after its spate of troubles a few years back. But a drop of 20% at the Op income line shows that there are a lot of problems to be corrected.
 
OK - enough business out of me..

#9926 of 24723 Re: Schrempp steps down, DCX steps up by 10% [ljflx] by bwia

Jul 28, 2005 (3:28 pm)

Replying to: ljflx (Jul 28, 2005 1:37 pm)
Notice that the biggest supporter of Schrempp, Deutsche Bank, sold a sizable chunk of its DCX shares and made a tidy profit in the process.
 
The next step is for MB to divest itself of Chrysler and concentrate on the luxury end of the car business. Schrempp devalued the brand in the ten years that he was CEO and I hope his separation compensation is devalued accordingly. According to an AP story “although his contract runs until 2008, Schrempp will only draw his salary until the end of this year, a spokesman said.”

#9927 of 24723 DEMLER/CHRYSLER CEO RESIGNS TODAY. by michael_mattox

Jul 28, 2005 (9:01 pm)

You had to know there was trouble when they kept extending that June promotion.
 
Eventually your sins catch up...all these years of a less then reliable product is catching up fast on MB...
 
I will never understand why they couldn't steal a few big time Japanese electronic wiz kids to solve their problems...Truth is their mechanical engineering is probably as good as it has ever been, it is all that electronic gear that is killing them.

#9928 of 24723 Re: DEMLER/CHRYSLER CEO RESIGNS TODAY. [michael_mattox] by lexusguy

Jul 29, 2005 (9:20 am)

Replying to: michael_mattox (Jul 28, 2005 9:01 pm)
They arent screwed together like they used to be though. Try a current S vs. an S420 and you can see the difference easily.

#9929 of 24723 Re: DEMLER/CHRYSLER CEO RESIGNS TODAY. [lexusguy] by merc1

Jul 29, 2005 (10:15 am)

Replying to: lexusguy (Jul 29, 2005 9:20 am)
They arent screwed together like they used to be though. Try a current S vs. an S420 and you can see the difference easily.
 
Thats true in that example if you're talking about the 1992-1999 W140 S-Class. I haven't seen anything built like that car or the SL from that timeframe, only the VW Phaeton comes close in sheer robustness, and it pays the price in weight.
 
However newer Mercedes like the SLK, CLS are built as good as anything on the market, and there is nothing shoddy about the CLK either. Only the E-Class could use an upgrade. The C-Class is much better than that awful 2001-2004 interior. The upcoming S-Class appears to be the biggest return to form yet as far as build quality is concerned, the detailing is awesome.
 
M

#9930 of 24723 Re: Just for the heck of it here's the next level down [merc1] by greenbelt

Jul 29, 2005 (10:33 am)

Replying to: merc1 (Jul 27, 2005 8:56 am)
You said:
 
"Everyone knows that on the industry side Toyota's profits are the big story, but what does that have to do with the type of cars they build when it comes to styling, design, performance or their sheer desirability? Nothing."
 
I say:
 
  • The story is that it has EVERYTHING to do with the type of the cars they build when it comes to styling, design, performance or sheer desirability, for the simple reason that their financial results are the only objective measure of their success in meeting customers desires. In the automobile business, customer desires are satiated by the product's styling, design, performance and sheer desirability rendered in a high quality and reliability vehicle in every market segment and price point a company addresses supported by the perceptions created through marketing.

    •  
  • You might have an opinion about MB and in fact, MB vehicles might best address your desires, and be #1 in your list and that's fine, of course. But there's no doubt at this point in time, that Toyota is the leading car company in the world.

    •  
  • We all recognize that MB and most other Euro makers need do a LOT of work to get their quality and reliability standards up to Asian and U.S. benchmarks. I think that if Toyota finds that it would be profitable to invest more money in a better, broader luxury, sporty product line, or build a bunch of cars on different platforms to satisfy a niche market, they will. And they'll do it right. Do I think that MB will fix its reliability and quality problems. I don't know, but the survival of the brand hinges on it in the long run because the real dent Lexus and Infiniti have put in the market is that a 'luxury' car that's unreliabile and low quality, really isn't a luxury car, after all.

    • Messages Page 993 of 2473

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