Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#9753 of 24726 Re: Its all about *looks* [oac]
Jun 27, 2005 (9:02 pm)
I am perplexed. Maybe Merc1 has an answer....
I'm not exactly sure what your question is? The things you say they need to concentrate on, they've done just that. Have you seen the interior pics? The best detailing I've seen on a Benz since the late 80's early 90's. If they had gone for just an updated version of the current S, everyone would harp that they didn't do enough. Once a design gets into the head of a particular company's designers it shows up on everything, no different from Toyota to Lexus. Like the Avalon and Solara looking like certain Lexuses. Mercedes will tell you the Maybach looks different and is seperate, but even I don't buy that one. They clearly meshed the Bach and the current S and added some wheel arches from only they know where.
You seem to imply that the Lexus LX470 is a hot item, but the truth is Lexus only sells all they can build because Toyota doesn't build that many. It is severly outdated, but you're right it does trade on its TLC heritage, similar to the even more outdated Mercedes G-Class. Both models will easily post huge sales gains once they're re-designed.
IMO, the Maybach's market failure is due to lack of name recognition, way too much similarity to a more "common" Mercedes, and styling that really doesn't stand out enough. Not everyone like the new Rolls, but it does get your attention and you know what it is instantly. I was against its looks from day one, it should have looked more like the concept from the 1997 Tokyo autoshow.
#9754 of 24726 Re: Diesels [ljflx]
Jun 27, 2005 (9:08 pm)
So why have they been such a failure if that is the case? I don't know anyone that would even think of looking at a diesel. On top of that the European reliability scores make it an even scarier proposition.
Failure? Nobody is really pushing diesels except VW and they sell a good number considering they are all alone in that part of the market. Mercedes' current E320CDI does ok, but they really haven't pushed the car yet because they're waiting on cleaner diesel. European "reliability scores" aren't any concern for diesels any more than they are for a regular gas-powered "European" car so I have no idea what you're trying to imply here. In fact diesel engines last longer and are more durable, and engines aren't the cause of MB's reliability ratings anyway.
#9755 of 24726 Re: Diesels [pablo_l]
Jun 27, 2005 (9:18 pm)
The problem with diesels in the USA has a lot to do with obsolete perception, too.
IMO, that is the main problem.
#9756 of 24726 Re: Diesels [kdshapiro]
Jun 28, 2005 (4:45 am)
The problem always has been the particulate matter. However, the new breed of diesel fuel should ameliorate that issue.
The C&D article tried to make the point that even with low-sulphur fuel, 2007 pollution standards will require additional particulate control technology in the vehicle, and this will raise per-vehicle prices an estimated $4500 at the end-user level. At that point diesel will be a very poor economic proposition.
#9758 of 24726 Hey designman
Jun 28, 2005 (5:34 pm)
I saw the banana car on the road today. My first thought was you and your complaints about the latest styles. My second thought was your hillarious post annointing the car with that name. My third thought was to focus back on driving because I was laughing too loud about thoughts 1 and 2 - and traffic was getting complex in front of me. If I kept laughing I'd have been in a nice fender bender. My final thought about the car was how deadly accurate your description and name fit it.
Jun 28, 2005 (7:17 pm)
Does it really matter if diesel fuel is about the same price as premium, when premium is what will be fueling the lexi hybrids?
#9760 of 24726 Re: Hey designman [ljflx]
Jun 29, 2005 (5:29 am)
Well the press doesn’t seem to agree with us. They have given the CLS pretty good styling reviews which I kind of shrug off as MB brand influence. I have seen quite a few of them lately. MBs can collapse in a puff of smoke and people will still buy them.
Jun 29, 2005 (6:17 am)
I actually (overall) like the CLS's styling. I just wish they had used a different headlight treatment as it just doesn't agree with me. Overall though the design is very striking and I like it.