Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#9521 of 24726 Re: Figures [oac]
May 18, 2005 (9:20 pm)
This is exactly my point about unsubstanciated hype:
Audi, MB still are barely above industry average, and BMW seems to be threading water, quality-wise, which may be a good thing, at least they aren't going backwards like MB....
Audi has a score of 106 and Mercedes 104, yet this is seen as being barely above the average of 118. Mercedes is going "backwards "yet they went from 10th place in 2004 to being in a tie for 5th place, this year. Yet this seen as going "backwards". Must be the new math.
Does this line of reasoning make a Toyota a poor product since they scored below Mercedes as a brand this year?
Earth to OAC - Read the chart before posting! GM beat DCX as a whole, while Buick's outdated and primitive cars beat Mercedes by 4 points. Whooptie do. Can't wait to drive a Buick. How exciting.
Autoweek side by side view 2005 vs 2004
#9522 of 24726 Chart ?
May 18, 2005 (10:32 pm)
What chart ? The one you don't believe in ??? So MB is doing better you say ? Good. While Lexus is 81/100 cars, MB is 104/100 cars, and OMG, Toyota is earth-shattering, God-awful 105/100 cars !!!! What a difference b/w the high-end MB and the mass-market low-end Toyota as the benchmark. Try Lexus on for size, afterall that's the real competition.
So while I read the chart and subscribe to its results, you use the chart only if it meets your line of reasoning. If you don't subscribe to JDP and its IQS ranking, why bother to even talk about it, eh ? So you do care about this stuff afterall.... Wake me up when MBs actually have less problems per 100 cars than a Lexus does, then we'll talk.
#9523 of 24726 Re: Chart ? [oac]
May 18, 2005 (10:48 pm)
No, my response was to your post trying to say that Mercedes was going backwards in quality, which they aren't. In fact it is just the opposite, they have shown improvement vs last year. Your first post was incorrect.
Your logic by putting MB down for their score would also put Toyota down because they scored less. Apparently there is a double standard in play here. Mercedes score is nothing while Toyota's is less, but thats ok because they are a mass market producer.
I don't subscribe to anything from JDP or CR, nor did I dispute what they found.
My point here is that if you're going to use the chart in your post you could at least get the data right.
#9524 of 24726 Re: Nothing Changes... [merc1]
May 19, 2005 (5:53 am)
> Problem is Buicks are totally outdated with pushrod engines and handling of a
> milk float.
What's wrong with pushrod engines if they work well for the road conditions that they are designed? Grea torque off the line and good highway mileage. There isn't a single MB non-turbo V8 on the market today that can produce 400+ hp like the Corvette pushrod V8 can do, not to mention in as small a package.
Ever considered perhaps a soft ride is what some people want? E class has a softer ride than C, S-class is even softer, S-class limos are softer yet.
> A Buick isn't a 1/5 the car a Mercedes is.
It can equally be argued a MB isn't 1/5 the car a Buick is . . . by saying-so. In fact, while we are on the subject of IQS, assertion of Buick superiority is slightly more valid, by 105-to-104, to be exact. On long term reliability, Buick has much less problem than MB.
> Who said anything about prejudice? Someone really needs a timeout.
I see, speaking of yourself again. If you find the exactly same verbiage and sentence strcuture turned against you rather upsetting, then step back and take a deep breath before dishing out.
#9525 of 24726 Re: Totally off topic [merc1]
May 19, 2005 (6:09 am)
Got tix on Fandango for midday Friday. If you want to fly to NJ, I'll treat you. Heck, you can drive the GX470 or LS430 too - Your choice.
May 19, 2005 (7:21 am)
I am surprised that Lexus is THAT MUCH BETTER then Mercedes..
I have said before as I see the newer Mercedes on the road these days it is looking different to me, where once I really admired the styling it is wearing thin with me...It looks dated.
The nice thing about the old LS 400 and even the LS430 is their timeless design...especially with LS 400. The new GS is just a beautiful car in my book.
Mercedes/Chysler needs to pull some rabbits out of the hat... soon.
#9527 of 24726 Re: Chart ? [merc1]
May 19, 2005 (8:43 am)
Your logic by putting MB down for their score would also put Toyota down because they scored less....
No one is putting MB down, MB is putting MB down with its lack-luster quality performance against the likes of GM. MB should be challenging the likes of Lexus, not trying to beat GM's quality.... I didn't make the IQS results up, JDP did, based on OWNERS responses. If anything, you should direct your voice to MB execs to strive to do better to help the brand climb back to its lofty heights. Competing with the likes of GM for higher quality is certainly not the way to go. That is what I meant by (a) try to hire the Production head at Toyota's Tanaka plant (which you misinterpreted to styling cues, instead of production....), and (b) try to take Lexus on the latter's area of strength.
Unlike you, I am offering ideas of how MB can turn things around, you OTOH, are content to bash JDP and anyone who subscribes to their work as hog wash... Its your choice, don't shoot the messenger (me), address the message (JDP).
May 19, 2005 (11:30 am)
I think the Germans have made good progress on the IQS, BMW in particular.
Personally I find the vehicle dependability studies to be more important, though. These are based on 3-year results rather than 90 days. We'll see how the Germans are doing 3 years from now...possibly the improvement will be enough to put me in a BMW or even MB.
#9529 of 24726 Re: Chart ? [michael_mattox]
May 19, 2005 (11:30 am)
"Mercedes/Chysler needs to pull some rabbits out of the hat... soon. "
ON the style front, I think Chrysler is doing a excellent job and it's showing in higher sales figures and lower incentives. The 300C looks good, the Magnum looks really good, and the Charger is gorgeous!
May 19, 2005 (1:18 pm)
Max..I have to agree...A good step foreward for Mercedes/Chysler