Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#9288 of 24726 Re: The best? [michael_mattox]
May 07, 2005 (3:03 pm)
Upon biking on my regular route through suburban Tampa streets, I always pass a beautiful 2005 silver S class Mercedes parked in a driveway. No doubt about it. One beautiful car. So graceful. A work of art. It's always in the same place. Could the owner be showing off his trophy car?
Also on my bike route, there are several 2004-2005 LS 430's and I don't care what anyone says-that is one good looking car. I get to pass one in silver and one in white. Both beautiful. My heart races like it used to do when I was a kid on a swing.
But that S class. Wow!
#9289 of 24726 Wimbledon Update
May 07, 2005 (3:30 pm)
Yo... Waiter!! I'll have the Strawberries Sauvignon!!
#9290 of 24726 Re: The best? [hpowders]
May 07, 2005 (3:38 pm)
I can understand that the "M" Infiniti just doesn't appeal to you as simply no one car appeals to everyone. You go on by saying "all those complaints on the M board". Hmmm, there may be one or two complaints from one or a couple of owners, but this is hardly befitting the word "all". Most owners that I am aware of ARE still on their "honeymoon" with their M's, so if you want to continue to put your spin on the car because you don't like it, realize that by saying it doesn't make it so. The M is not for you so simply don't buy it.
With my personal ownership experience now seven weeks including all its gadgets (tech.and journey packages), I can honestly say that the car has been flawless with no squeaks, rattles, malfunctions or issues of any kind. I neither find the ride punishing nor the car loud or harsh in any way, only sporty (strictly MY opinion though).
#9291 of 24726 Re: Wimbledon Update [designman]
May 07, 2005 (4:14 pm)
Stick around. This may just develop into a doubles match.
What a revoltin' development this is!
#9292 of 24726 Re: The best? [carnaught]
May 07, 2005 (4:18 pm)
Well thank you very much for telling me I have the priviledge of not buying the M if I don't like it.
I will take advantage of your generous offer. I won't buy it.
Where's the spin? I listed concrete examples from the M35/45 board of M owners who are having problems with their new M's. Strange odors and mysterious noises requiring engineers from Japan to come to the US. because the crack Infiniti service technicians can't figure out what's wrong.
A blowout after driving for only 2 weeks.
Hey, you can't make this stuff go away. It's right there on the M board unless someone has deleted these experiences.
See M35/M45 post #2564. You're a riot Infiniti! A regular riot!
#9294 of 24726 Re: sales volume [merc1]
May 07, 2005 (5:37 pm)
Here is the main point you fail to understand:
If Lexus promises a BMW fighter, but delivers an E-class competitor, as long as the product delivered makes them money (profitable), that's all that counts. I would think that is plainly obvious !
Let me draw you a picture here. Everyone knows about Viagra, right ? When VIAGRA came out a few years ago, did Pfizer bother to tell the public that the drug was found by serendipity ? A team of scientists testing a clinical candidate with patients found that the patients were experiencing some *secondary* effect that were *beneficial*. Lo and behold... a class of PDE-V drugs was born with Viagra. And BILLIONS of dollars later, copy cats now flood the market trying to make money in this therapeutic area.
I'll say it again: The bottomline is that the product makes money for the manufacturer, whether/or not it meets the mark with some auto rags or self-appointed enthusiasts. If the GS outsells and out-profits the M, think Lexus will change the game plan ? Nope. No corporate entity will willy-nilly go away from their strength just to satisfy a miniscule amount of the public. Lexus' bread-and-butter is LUXURY, and as long as that is not compromised, they'll continue to beat the crap out of the luxury sedan/truck competition.
#9295 of 24726 Re: sales volume [oac]
May 07, 2005 (7:13 pm)
Everyone still compares cars with BMWs- I'm with you, but from a different perspective. BMWs are not benchmarks any more, exceptions to the new 3. The 3 is still the best in class. But, the 5 lags in several areas: style (of course), power (Will be addressed with the 535/550), luxury, and warmth (the interior is business-like and cold).
I believe that the Audi A6 is the benchmark, with the GS nipping its heels, the M-Series Infiniti closing in, and the Mercedes E-Class not far behind. The BMW does not even make the list, and this is for one reason: The 5 sells itself on performance. If you want a luxury sedan, it's supposed to sell on style, luxury, and performance, not just performance.
It's just not a luxury sedan without the luxury. Slapping a polished slab of wood on the dash doesn't help.
#9296 of 24726 Sales
May 07, 2005 (11:30 pm)
With so much talk about the sportiness or lack thereof of the Lexus GS vs its Infiniti competitor, well what are they doing in the market ???
April 2005 sales:
GS300/430 = ~3000 units sold
M35/45 = ~2200 units sold
5-series = ~4500 units sold
So what was that about the GS not been sporty enough ? It is beating the M where it counts, and is getting close to the 5 (with a zillion variants). Oh, the LS sales wasn't bad either against the S and the 7-series. I threw in the Q45 sales just to show that lower-priced or *value-priced* product in this space does not necessarily translate to success, as MB fans often state about the LS... And of course, I expect Merc1 to dismiss all of this as hocus pocus !
LS430 = 2,398 units sold
S-class = 1,451 units sold
7-series = 1,182 units sold
Q45 = 81 units sold
May 08, 2005 (2:34 am)
What is it that the GS has failed at? Maybe they failed to make a car you would want, but that's about it as far as being a "failure". Lexus aspires for the brand to be perceived as more sporty like BMW, but when did anyone at the company ever promise to make a GS that would "out-sport" the 5? Please show us a quote stating such a goal, because the only GS goal I have seen in print was this:
"Traditionally, Mercedes and BMW have been the class leaders in sales, consistently maintaining an 18-percent-or-better share of market. Our goal, with the GS is to join the leaders near the front of the pack with an annual share-of-segment of more than 14 percent, while achieving an annual sales rate of about 33,000 units. That's a bold statement and a bold move from our 2004 sales rate of 8,200 units and five-percent share of segment." - Mark Templin, Lexus Vice President, Marketing - March 24, 2005 - New York Auto Show
From the April numbers they are making decent progress. The GS as I stated previously trailed the segment-leading 5 by 30% in April. The ML trailed the RX (not counting hybrid versions) by 58%, which you said "Doesn't mean its a failure"...yet the GS to you is a failure??? And just a few posts ago you called yourself unbiased and objective?