Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#9250 of 24726 Re: merc1 [merc1]
May 05, 2005 (3:02 am)
Talk about hype. The ML just came out during the month of April, like towards the middle.
That's odd, on another Edmunds board someone posted:
Yeah I'm reading in other MB forums that the new ML is due like on March 19th or so?
merc1, "2006 Mercedes-Benz M-Class" #18, 13 Mar 2005 6:33 pm
Guess who posted it? Some fellow named merc1. Guess that Germans-are-supermen attitude caused a little mixup on the dates?
If you want to let the M-class season a little before seeing if it has re-captured segment leadership, fine by me. We'll check again down the road.
#9251 of 24726 Re: Diesel Benz [sv7887]
May 05, 2005 (3:04 am)
You should be able to get the new V6 diesel in your state once low-sulfur fuel is madatory in 2006.
Hard to say what the discount is on a Benz until you talk specific models. AMG and hard to get models are less so than final run models of course.
#9252 of 24726 Re: merc1 [syswei]
May 05, 2005 (3:09 am)
You're right on the dates, I was thinking March not April.
Either way it still doesn't make a bit of difference as there is no way the ML is going to catch the sales leader in 40 days or so on the market. To even suggest that there is a problem because it didn't is like I said - ridiculous. The ML will probably never sell in the volumes of the RX anyway, I really don't expect it too. Doesn't mean its a failure either.
#9253 of 24726 sv - hybrid premium
May 05, 2005 (3:12 am)
The base RX400h is 11k over the base RX300awd, however most of that is due to the car being optioned-up. Haven't calculated it myself, but I read that on an equivalent option basis the hybrid premium is $3500. Of course it may differ on future models...my conjecture is that the premium may rise at the LS level.
#9254 of 24726 Re: merc1 [merc1]
May 05, 2005 (7:32 am)
A year ago, the GS trailed the then-leading E by 90% in units. Now it trails the leading 5-series by a more respectable 30%.
A year ago, the ML trailed the RX by 75%. Now it trails by 58% (not counting the RX400h).
Seems to me that the new GS (which also became available in March) is being better received than the new ML. If I were MB I'd be worried and thinking that maybe the reliability concerns are having an impact on the buying public.
May 05, 2005 (8:29 am)
The new GS is a beautiful car, a Lexus that competes in Looks...I assume the new LS will be just as awesome if not more so.
#9256 of 24726 Re: World Record for diesel Benz [xkss]
May 05, 2005 (9:00 am)
What a complete waste of time and fuel. The most real life damage to the drive train is during cold starts. The three E's didn't have a single cold start in 30 days after the initial one. We have diesel co-generators that run continuously for years without stoppage, why should a 30-day run with check-up every 2hrs be a problem for any car?? In real life, oil and coolant deterioration comes from long term slow chemical reaction with air and tubing; none of that is tested in the demo run. In fact, the coolant didn't even have to be changed in 30 days . . . goes to show you how trivial the real stress was. I doubt any car off the lot of any manufacturer would have a greater than 1 in 1000 chance of failing if put to the same test. The really funny part was this quote: " In addition to the vast distance and dramatic variations in climatic conditions, the vehicles' suspension, chassis and electronics were subjected to particularly severe and relentless punishment from the vibrations generated by the uneven road surface. " What "dramatic variations in climatic conditions" are we talking about? The car was running in circles on a race track for 30 days. If the smooth surface of a race track and daily temperature variation while running an engine that is kept running and therefore warm the whole time is considered "severe and relentless punishment" for Mercedes, no wonder they fail miserably in real life ownership.
It's just another pointless DaimlerChrysler marketting exercise in absurdity, just like winching a Jeep up the side of a building and call it "off-road."
May 05, 2005 (5:53 pm)
There is a nice piece in today's Fianancial Times comparing the sales figures of the vehicles that sell for between 90K to 160K and the cars that sell for 250K or more. The first group, lets call it wheels for the 70 hour a week, working rich, of cars is doing well. The second group, lets call it wheels for the filthy rich, is not doing so well. Phantoms aren't selling, the Maybach is going nowhere, etc. There are lots of implications in all this, most of which I don't understand. The first group of cars tend to be owned by working people who run it through their company. The cars that go for above 250K I think aren't owned by people active in businesss but people in entertainment, sports, etc.
#9258 of 24726 Re: sales volume [merc1]
May 05, 2005 (8:17 pm)
If the GS450h is only 5-10K more why would I want a GS460?
If the GS were given out FREE, you wouldn't take one, so .....
The rest reads like like Lexus Service Announcement.
Sometimes I wonder why we even bother to debate anything if you take a condescending attitude to anything you disagree with. Feel free to disagree, but be respectful. Is that too much to ask ?
#9259 of 24726 Re: merc1 [syswei]
May 05, 2005 (11:57 pm)
I gotta ask who cares? You can analyze the sales numbers to death and draw as many (silly really) conclusions as you like, but in the end it really doesn't matter what you think as long as the vehicle sells. Now we're down to percentage of acceptance?! Like I said before posts like that are nothing but hype because you don't know what the supply is or any other factors behind sales. Its always to paint gloom and doom and/or trouble when it comes to the German brands, Mercedes in particular. Considering Mercedes' problems with the ML before it would seem to me that they'd ramp up production slowly, and even if that isn't the case I really don't care long as it sells better than the previous ML Which it did for its first full month.
When you were busy analyzing these numbers did you take into account that GS was as dead as dead can be this time last year, only selling 522 units compared to the ML's 2028. Seems to me that sales had no where to go but way up since nobody was buying the old GS in April of 2004. The GS had a lot more ground to cover than the ML did seeing as how the ML was selling a more even rate. It hadn't yet dropped off the market like the GS did.
BTW, who said that reliabilty concerns don't have an impact on the public? Of course they do, you can see that on other boards here on Edmunds where prospective MB buyers mention that as a concern. So your point is again what?
What I took issue is all this nonsense about people caring about what a CEO says or what a company's profits were last quarter when the go to buy, not reliability "concerns".