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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 902 of 2473

#9009 of 24723 Re: GS 300/430 [ljflx] by merc1

Apr 20, 2005 (3:59 pm)

Replying to: ljflx (Apr 19, 2005 7:13 pm)
 
Now reliablity has "tempered" the enthusiasm for a car that hasn't even been revealed yet, along with poor styling and the increase in size. Nothing but wishful thinking on your part.
 
What you fail to realize is the Mercedes, unlike Lexus knows how to make a larger car appear smaller. The new ML is larger than the old one, yet it doesn't look it. Ditto for the current E-Class compared to the 1996-2002 model. How in the world is it a mistake to make the S bigger when the 7-Series, A8 and Phaeton are all bigger than the current S? Do you think its a mistake because you think it will look like the 1992 S-Class on the outside? Its not Mercedes' fault that Lexus doesn't know how to get space out of the LS without making it look like a box. When they do try to "style" a car right there is not much room as those have complained about in the new GS.
 
Mercedes would be very foolish not to make the car bigger in order to at the very least match the competition in room. Lexus gets to make a stretched version of the new LS, but the S-Class is supposed to stay the same size. Only in Lexiland.
 
M

#9010 of 24723 Re: GS 300/430 [merc1] by syswei

Apr 20, 2005 (4:25 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Apr 20, 2005 3:59 pm)
Personally, I'm all for more roominess in sedans and SUVs...and that's one reason I took a look at the specs of the GS and RL and CLS...but didn't go any further (though with the CLS it was also lack of AWD and the reliability factor).
 
However I'd like to point out that whatever the exterior dimensions (which I haven't checked), the current E is less roomy on the interior than its predecessor. IMHO the MB designers may have prioritized exterior looks over interior space.

#9011 of 24723 Re: GS 300/430 [syswei] by merc1

Apr 20, 2005 (4:33 pm)

Replying to: syswei (Apr 20, 2005 4:25 pm)
However I'd like to point out that whatever the exterior dimensions (which I haven't checked), the current E is less roomy on the interior than its predecessor. IMHO the MB designers may have prioritized exterior looks over interior space.
 
I haven't found that to be the case at all. There a few deminsions that are smaller than before and some are larger, some exterior, some interior, point being the car doesn't look as large as the previous model while it doesn't give up more than a few tenths of an inch here or there and in some cases its larger, all without looking like it. They're basically the same size and yet the current one looks much smaller on the road was my point.
 
M

#9012 of 24723 Re: GS 300/430 [merc1] by syswei

Apr 20, 2005 (5:01 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Apr 20, 2005 4:33 pm)
My recollection is of reading an MB press release of the E...probably the wagon...and thinking it odd that they put in the release something like "almost as much interior room as the previous generation"...and thinking that if I were the PR person and those were the facts, I wouldn't even mention interior room in the release.
 
But I do understand your point that visually the new model looks less massive. I think that all the criticism MB got over the old S's massiveness might have influenced this design direction.

#9013 of 24723 Re: GS 300/430 [merc1] by ljflx

Apr 20, 2005 (5:21 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Apr 20, 2005 3:59 pm)
"But I also think MB reliability has tempered the enthusiasm the S would have normally had and I also think that new S will not be as good looking as the current car. As well I think MB is making a big mistake going back to the mammoth size of the old S-class car and putting in that i-drive equivalent technology. That is going to be a car that turns off the better half of many families - in my opinion."
 
That's my opinion, just like you have an opinion on styling - which often I disagree with. In my circles I don't know anyone who is eagerly awaiting this next S-class and typically these are people that have owned or in some cases still own/lease MB's and would have eagerly sought info about it in the past. I think MB's poor reliability has caused a "hurt" beyond what you think. I've heard it first hand pretty often and it's written up all over the place. Lastly I said nothing about a poor design. I think the current car is a gorgeous car - but from the styling direction MB seems to be going - the creased line on the side ie - I think the new car will be a dropoff in looks. It's an opinion, not fact. Nor is it wishful thinking. Why would I want MB to fall off? They make the type of lux cars I seek. BMW, Audi, Jag and Infiniti don't cut it for me.

#9014 of 24723 Re: GS 300/430 [ljflx] by merc1

Apr 20, 2005 (5:34 pm)

Replying to: ljflx (Apr 20, 2005 5:21 pm)
"In my circles I don't know anyone who is eagerly awaiting this next S-class and typically these are people that have owned or in some cases still own/lease MB's and would have eagerly sought info about it in the past. I think MB's poor reliability has caused a "hurt" beyond what you think. I've heard it first hand pretty often and it's written up all over the place. Lastly I said nothing about a poor design. I think the current car is a gorgeous car - but from the styling direction MB seems to be going - the creased line on the side ie - I think the new car will be a dropoff in looks."
 
Like I said in Lexusland I guess. Sure MB's reliability standings have cause a lot of hurt for their current cars, but people in your "circles" really don't think anything of MB anymore anyway (according to you) so.....I wouldn't excpect them to get excited about anything from MB. I'm sure your ranting about how perfect Lexus is has more than a little to do with them not awaiting news on a new Mercedes. I thought all of them had left MB anyway, which is the way your posts usually read.
 
Despite what you and "circle" thinks, when a new Mercedes comes out its a big deal, especially a new S-Class.
 
M

#9015 of 24723 Re: GS 300/430 [syswei] by merc1

Apr 20, 2005 (5:37 pm)

Replying to: syswei (Apr 20, 2005 5:01 pm)
Sorry, you'll have to produce that one. Until then that sounds like complete nonesense to me.
 
"But I do understand your point that visually the new model looks less massive. I think that all the criticism MB got over the old S's massiveness might have influenced this design direction."
 
Of course it did, which is why I find it funny that one could possibly think that it would be a mistake to make the S-Class larger considering that they know how to make the cars appear smaller while being larger and/or the same size as before.
 
M

#9016 of 24723 Re: GS 300/430 [merc1] by syswei

Apr 20, 2005 (5:46 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Apr 20, 2005 5:37 pm)
I find it funny that one could possibly think that it would be a mistake to make the S-Class larger
 
Wasn't me that said that...I said I was all for more roominess.

#9017 of 24723 Merc1 by oac

Apr 20, 2005 (6:04 pm)

Interesting how you are so totally oblivious of reality when it comes to MB. Wake up, man, and smell the roses.... The current single-engined LS430 which is 5 years old is outselling the current S (430+500+600+55) and 7-series (745/760) COMBINED ! Does that get your attention ? Maybe it doesn't, but Germany is certainly concerned. Add the now very public issues of reliability and quality as opined by Cordes himself, and who can forget the recall of millions of MBs at a gigantic cost exceeding a BILLION dollars. All of these will hurt MBs bottomline (something you don't care about, but is real), hurt their image, hurt their brand, and cause MB to struggle even more as they try to over-compensate for their fall, yes, I said fall from grace. It is inevitable, Merc1, much as you would not acknowledge the obvious.
 
Oh, in Lexusland, we are realists....

#9018 of 24723 E320 wagon by syswei

Apr 20, 2005 (6:04 pm)

Sorry, you'll have to produce that one. Until then that sounds like complete nonesense to me.
 
OK, I can't find the release. But the EPA data do back me up:
 
current E320 wagon: 96 cu ft passenger, 41 cu ft luggage, 137 cu ft total
 
old E320 wagon: 98 - 44 – 142
 
So in the case of the E wagon (not sedan), it does appear that room was sacrificed for style. 5 cu ft may not seem a lot, but for example only 10 cu ft separates a 2005 S sedan from a E sedan, and only 10 cu ft separates an E from a C

Messages Page 902 of 2473

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