Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#8999 of 24726 Re: GS 300/430 [oac]
Apr 19, 2005 (6:31 am)
OAC - That car will make those and the others including the Audi V12 and VW V12 (do they even sell Phaetons anymore, I never see any ads anywhere and I never see the car on the road) look like dinosaurs and it'll be 15%-25% cheaper to boot. Latest and greatest technology in a sportier look from the worlds most reliable auto maker at a heavy discount. Pretty easy to see the conclusion of the story. MB and BMW have to go hybrid and start making news about it pretty soon. Otherwise Lexus will run away with the race.
I'm more interested honestly in the hybrid version of the LS460 gas engine. That supposedly comes out just after the LS460 at an 8-10K premium price but as a loaded car with simply a SWB or LWB option. You realize of course that they will also - inevitably - make a limited SC version of that 600H engine. But it is the 460 hybrid that will be key as it will power the big SUV's as well. Make sure you have some ample breathing room between purchase and the debut of this next LS in gas and hybrid forms. There is going to be a lot of demand and this is is going to be a lot worse than it was in 2001. I hope late March 2007 - my time frame - is sufficient.
Apr 19, 2005 (7:04 am)
I thought the LS600h combined a 4.6 liter gas engine with hybrid tech, giving 6-liter equivalent performance.
If there is going to be a lower-priced LS hybrid, it might be based on a V6, as in the GS450h.
#9001 of 24726 Re: LS600hL [syswei]
Apr 19, 2005 (7:09 am)
No - there is going to be a $100K+ LS hybrid that rivals a V12 gas engine. I thought that was the 600H but now that I remermber that car will have the GT initials for distinction. There are 2 hybrids and one gas engine in this next model round. It is the V12 like car that is scheduled for 2008.
#9002 of 24726 Re: [merc1] [00boxsters] [merc1]
Apr 19, 2005 (10:50 am)
As I said, not models since Porsche is limited, fortunately. (I do not include the TEN! different variations of just the 911 model listed on their website) By performance options I mean ceramic brakes, larger tire/wheel packages, suspensions, engines (S), some aero effects and even seats/steering wheels.
#9003 of 24726 Re: GS 300/430 [ljflx]
Apr 19, 2005 (1:41 pm)
By my calculations (need to confirm this tho'), methinks the 600h is based on a 5L V8 hybrid, which is the hybrid variant of a proposed LS500 GT/AWD. I doubt that Lexus will ever put a 450h hybrid engine in their top of the line LS, that is designed for the GS/SC or maybe IS. But the key distinction is the 500 "GT" which has AWD standard (SWB/LWB trims), and the 600h which is simply a hybrid-engined car in a LWB model only.
#9004 of 24726 Re: GS 300/430 [oac]
Apr 19, 2005 (4:47 pm)
OAC - The LS and GS4 will have a hybrid mated to the regular gas engine and it will produce the extra power to push into the 400's. They won't make such an engine only for the GS, and that engine in an IS would steel too much thunder from a higher priced SC or other exotic coupe. I doubt the IS ever gets a V8 or V8 hybrid. I think the reason you don't get a GS430 hybrid anytime soon is because it has to wait for the LS.
I'm still thinking about that GS in cypress I saw yesterday. I saw one in black today and it looked real good but the cypress with sport extras was a knockout. The GS seems to look its best in the medium color tones. I'd love to see one in flint mica.
#9005 of 24726 Re: GS 300/430 [ljflx]
Apr 19, 2005 (5:39 pm)
But the GS450h comes out MY2007, which is based on the 3.5L V6 in the IS350/Avalon/GS350 (Japan). The power rating has not been announced, but I expect it to exceed 340hp, since the naturally aspirated 3.5L V6 in the IS350 will churn out 300+hp. The IS is now rumored (confirmed by the influential "Best Car Magazine" in Japan) to get a 400hp 5L V8 badged as an IS500, to go against the C55 and M3.
Sortie anticipée par "Best Car" pour l'été 2006. La voiture est parait-il développée avec le souci d'un impact minimal sur l'environnement. C'est cela, oui. Enfin, Lexus, la filiale de Toyota, à peine entrée dans le club très fermé des constructeurs de prestige, entend asseoir sa position en mettant une claque aux membres historiques: une IS500 équipée d'un V8 de 5l et 400 cv avec pour cible la M3 et la C55 AMG.
For the LS, Lexus has indicated they'll put a hybrid motor based on a V8 engine. That would mean that the LS600h is based on the 4.6L V8 in the base 2007 LS460. But seeing that the entry-level IS may get a 5L V8 engine, Lexus may also bring out an LS500 "GT"/AWD. BTW, the GS will also get the 4.6L but not the 600h. Whatever would happen to the 4.3L motor in the current GS430/LS430 ???
By my estimate I see
LS500 "GT" (LWB/SWB) ???
LS600h (LWB only)
Is this what you hear or different ?
#9006 of 24726 Re: GS 300/430 [oac]
Apr 19, 2005 (6:13 pm)
Per my source the names - save the LS460 were not yet determined, but based on lenscap the LS600H is now added so let me say it goes this way:
LS460 - base car - 350HP and possibly optioned as a LWB car as well. But this car will mainly be the equivalent of todays custom lux $64K car priced around $66K. Whether or not they allow a dressed down premium only version of this with just the sunroof and memory features (or whatever is in todays $58K car) is up in the air.
LS600H ( I like LS460H better as a name because I think of it as the hybrid option) - This will be pretty loaded car and range from the $72K range in SWB to as high as low 80's in a LWB ultra model.
LSGT - This is your super V12 equivalent car that should arrive in 2008 as a LWB only car with everything standard including some things simply not available in the other model variants.
The GS will come iin hybrid in both the GS3 and GS4 but the latter will wait until the LS gets the hybrid.
If I were Lexus I'd bring the hybrid to the current LS in 2006 to keep the sales hot. Otherwise they will fall as many will defer buying to the 2007 car and then you also get some fight against, as well as steel some thunder from the new S-class - which will have a 6 month leadtime. But I also think MB reliability has tempered the enthusiasm the S would have normally had and I also think that new S will not be as good looking as the current car. As well I think MB is making a big mistake going back to the mammoth size of the old S-class car and putting in that i-drive equivalent technology. That is going to be a car that turns off the better half of many families - in my opinion.
#9007 of 24726 Re: GS 300/430 [oac]
Apr 19, 2005 (8:01 pm)
Think I may have an answer as to why the new GS is not more prevalent... and I frame my observation on my personal perspective as a 6'4" retired Rugger. The rear seat was uninhabitable for me. No way my legs could get into the footwell and my head brushed the roof lining. Had to sit "side saddle".
It's as if it was a 7/8 scale model! When people look for a 4-door, they at least want to get their friends/business associates in the back seat. Another issue might be the utility and accessibility of the trunk design for those who play golf, etc.
That said, I was totally impressed with the build quality and cabin layout/materials. Kinda put-off by the touch screen... no lover of my favorite marque's iDrive either. Will say that the new GS430 was totally appealing save for the interior dimensions - kinda leaves us larger "athletic" guys out of the picture. LS would be the only car from Lexus I'd be comfortable in.
Apr 20, 2005 (11:41 am)
Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.
6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!