Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#8859 of 24726 New Aluminum Jaguars
Apr 03, 2005 (7:48 am)
The next Jaguar S-Type will likely use the new XJ's aluminum chassis and have styling cues from the 2001 Jaguar R Coupe and the 2003 Jaguar RD-6. I think the grille and headlights need some work, but it looks nice.
The Jaguar Advanced Lightweight Coupe shows what the next XK might look like. The next XK will have to comply with new European pedestrian safety regulations. The next XK will use the new XJ's aluminum chassis which is 40 % lighter and 60 % stiffer than if it were steel. Some people complain how that Jaguar concept looks too much like an Aston Martin, which may be true, but at least the next Jaguar XK will have a new aluminum chassis. One thing I noticed between that Jaguar conept and new Astons is how the rear tappers off like the current XK8 vs. the crease around the rear trunk/window of new Astons. New Astons have a chassis that is NOT shared with Jaguars.
Here is a link to pictures of it. There are also pictures of the Jaguar XKR of Rocketsports Racing that races in the Trans-Am Series which dominated last year. It has 4.5 liters and 650 hp and a 9,000 rpm reline. Its engine is based on Jaguar's 4.2 liter V-8. Jaguar's 4.2 liter V-8 is much better than the old 4.0 liter V-8 which came out with the 1997 XK8.
Also, the link shows a 2005 XK8, but it says it is an XKR (which is false).
Here is the new XJ's aluminum chassis:
The 2005 Jaguar Super V8 weighs over 800 pounds less than a BMW 760Li.
"The complete body with weighs 650 pounds compared with an estimated 1,058 pounds for the same car in steel, 952 pounds for a Mercedes-Benz S-class, and 955 pounds for a 7-series BMW."
- from The Inside Guide to the all-new aluminum Jaguar XJ by Automobile Magazine
Here is an article from wardsauto.com about Jaguar and aluminum. (It mentions a 2010 XK but this article was written before Jaguar announced the X150, the code name for the next XK).
Jaguar Cars’ Castle Bromwich assembly plant in the U.K. is preparing its case for more aluminum vehicles, having successfully validated the concept with the now-profitable aluminum XJ.
The upfront investment is paying off, says Mark White, Jaguar senior body structures manager for Jaguar and Land Rover Vehicles for Ford Motor Co. The XJ is profitable, he says.
The next step is the business case for future aluminum monocoque Jaguars. Following the brand’s cycle plan, the next-generation S-Type would be up for consideration first, as an ’06 or ’07 model, followed by the XK around 2010.
Bromwich assembles the current S-Type and XK, but only the XJ has an aluminum body mated to a steel subframe.
Ford has invested in a dedicated aluminum pressing facility at Bromwich for the XJ. The stamping facility, adjacent to the body assembly line, can handle aluminum versions of the S-Type and XK, should the auto maker go that route in the next-generation.
“We have the ability to do all three (cars in) aluminum if the business case is there,” White says.
“We know what it costs to do it for other models. But if they don’t meet the cost target, we won’t do it,” he says, noting he will have a series of deadlines to meet over the next three years.
The technology is ever evolving, and that plays into the business case as well. “We want to develop the technology even further,” White says.
The auto maker is identifying where costs are too high and working to reduce them. The goal is to further cut weight (aluminum currently reduces weight 40%-45% over steel); develop an even more efficient aluminum body structure; and improve manufacturing, such as rationalizing some of the 17 different riveting processes.
The rivet process also can be improved from an awkward system of rivets in a long band of tape to a blow-feed operation where they are loaded into a hopper and shot out like a dart gun through an air tube to nearby rivet guns.
Piloted on the long-wheelbase XJ, the process is being validated for future use as well. Switching from a tape feed to blow feed for the rivets will save $25 per vehicle, White says.
Alcan Inc. has been a partner with Jaguar, coming up with adhesive bonding that dramatically increases stiffness, which allows for lower gauge (thinner) aluminum to be used and saving on material cost, says Mike Kelly, Alcan Automotive vice president-global program director.
Alcan also does pre-treatment and pre-lubrication work. Additionally, the aluminum producer developed the just-in-time supply route for the 125 parts it sends to Bromwhich.
Kelly explains the aluminum starts in smelters in Quebec, Canada. Facilities in Western Germany do hot-rolling, and plants in Eastern Germany produce cold-rolled aluminum.
A finishing line does the pre-treatment and pre-lubrication. There is a laser-blank cut-to-length line in the U.K. and a storage facility feeding nearby Bromwich.
In 2003, Alcan supplied Jaguar with 1 million laser blanks, Kelly says."
Here is Mark White
I think Jaguar needs to drop the X-Type. I hope they make a new 2 seater aluminum sports car with styling from the Jaguar F-Type of a few years ago.
#8860 of 24726 Link please?
Apr 03, 2005 (7:51 am)
Please post a link to the article you are quoting so that we're not in any copyright hot water - thanks.
Apr 03, 2005 (9:12 am)
As a big fan of Jaguar I can't help but be disappointed with their new XJ. It looks too much like the X-type. It lacks the flair of the old model. Ford hasn't shown alot of wisdom in building a downmarket car that bears a strong resemblance to the Ford Mondeo. No one has been fooled. They simply lack the current generation technology that the other marques have. Also they've had some very embarassing problems with Nikasil coated engines and water pumps that fail without warning. If you look at some Jag formus you'll see what I'm talking about. As a result residuals are terrible.
You can pick up a 3yr old XJ for something in the mid $20K's. With the Select Edition Warranty, it's a good value, but do you want something that could possibly strand you? I've read enough Jag forums to know that they've had hoses suddenly fail and strand the driver. Another issue is upper tensioner chains. You'd think a mass produced car like the XJ wouldn't suffer from these problems.
As much as I love the old XJ, I'm inclined to stick with my LS cars. While the LS lacks the allure of the XJ, it does give you a piece of mind. I've maintained that if Lexus could design cars with a Jaguar flair, they'd sell like hot cakes. I do hope they pull through however, as there is nothing like a Jaguar.
#8863 of 24726 Re: syswei, ljflx [blckislandguy]
Apr 03, 2005 (10:01 am)
I do know what he is talking about and Personally I expect quality service....The same service as every other customer gets from LEXUS...and they give it to me. And that is the way it should be.
#8864 of 24726 Re: Jaguar [sv7887]
Apr 03, 2005 (6:36 pm)
As a former huge jaguar fan and customer, I echo your sentiments. When I bought my first Jag in '97, it was my dream car. Customer service was the best I have ever experienced. When I bought my second in '00, they had rolled out the S, and were ready to roll out the X, and customer commitment went down from there. And since there were issues with my XJR, and it is inexcusable to swindle $3k out of customers that just spent $70k on a car -in my humble opinion- they lost me as a customer. I am not *that* emotional about any car or brand. Their ongoing design fiascos -faux classic Brit- show they are headed towards obliteration, sadly. What was once my favorite car brand holds no remote resemblance of desirability for me anymore...
#8865 of 24726 New Jaguar XJ
Apr 03, 2005 (7:11 pm)
The new Jaguar XJ's 4.2 liter V-8 does NOT have the Nikasil coated engines and water pumps problems of the old 4.0 liter V-8.
The new XJ has a curve in its rear doors that starts at the end, like old Jaguars. The previous XJ didn't have that curve.
The new XJ's outer headlights are bigger than the inner headlights, like the original XJ.
The new XJ's wheels are pushed out to the corners, like the original XJ.
The new Porsche 911 looks good and its styling hasn't changed much over the 40 years.
Here is a 2004 XJR in "Zircon" with the optional 20 inch BBS wheels.
Here is another 2004 XJR.
The new aluminum XJ was tested extensively at Germany's demanding Nurburgring race track.
As to the new XJ's technology.
As I've said before, the 2005 Jaguar Super V8 weighs over 800 pounds less than a BMW 760Li thanks to its advanced aluminum chassis and use of relevant technology.
The new XJR and Super V8 come standard with Brembo brakes which include four-piston calipers.
The new XJ has a ZF 6 speed automatic transmission which I found to be quite responsive when I drove one (a 2004 XJR).
The new XJR has optional 20 inch BBS wheels which are high quality.
The new XJ will be available with Bluetooth next month.
#8866 of 24726 The new XJ
Apr 03, 2005 (7:16 pm)
more pictures of the new XJ's aluminum chassis which is 40 % lighter and 60 % stiffer than if it were steel. The new XJ uses magnesium in its seat frames.
#8867 of 24726 Jaguars
Apr 03, 2005 (8:45 pm)
I sure appreciate the new angle to this forum, and welcome it whole-heartedly. But I am no Jag fan and think Jaguar is well past its glory days with Ford at the helm of affairs. But that new XK concept is a real beaut if they build it "as-is". Saw it at the SD auto show in January, and it got featured in the April MT issue. Real positive styling direction imo.