Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#8786 of 24726 MB recall
Mar 31, 2005 (7:06 am)
FRANKFURT (Reuters) - U.S.-German carmaker DaimlerChrysler is recalling 1.3 million Mercedes cars as it tries to fix quality woes that are riddling its German luxury car division, it said Thursday.
Mercedes will recall the cars in several model ranges worldwide to fix problems with alternators and batteries, which do not affect the cars' safety, according to the supplier, car-parts maker Robert Bosch.
Mercedes chief Eckhard Cordes, who said earlier this year that his drive to resolve the quality problems would hit this year's earnings, said the cars Mercedes makes now are of high quality and that the recall addressed legacy problems.
"We are now producing the best product quality ever and our aim is to ensure that those vehicles in the hands of customers which are the cause of complaints achieve a standard of quality that reflects our highest expectations," Cordes said in a statement.
DaimlerChrysler declined to say how much the recall would cost.
Shares in DaimlerChrysler dipped after news of the recall, paring earlier gains, to trade up 0.3 percent at 34.56 in afternoon activity, in line with the blue-chip DAX index.
Mercedes said it would check, and if necessary, replace the voltage regulator in the alternator on vehicles with six- and eight-cylinder engines built between June 2001 and Nov. 2004 in the recall.
The carmaker will install new battery-control software on E-class and CLS-class models made from Jan. 2002 to Jan. 2005. In addition, it will update the braking system on current E-class, SL-class and CLS-class models, made since June 2001.
Mar 31, 2005 (7:53 am)
Hmmmmmm they are producing their best car ever..but recalling over a million of them.
#8788 of 24726 Re: a history question, off topic [ljflx]
Mar 31, 2005 (8:57 am)
Len, I understand. Its kinda a catch-22: The unions need the jobs to take care of their families, and GM need to cut costs otherwise the jobs won't be there. Doesn't this scenario play out daily ? Thankfully, my line of work don't unionize otherwise I'd be real nervous about our prospects as well. Hopefully every side realize the high stakes and make the best decision for everyone. GM is an icon of the American economy, nay worldwide economy. Maybe they'd wise up quick and take care of their business....
Mar 31, 2005 (1:14 pm)
Innovation, styling, safety, 0-60 times, handling or anything else that Lexus doesn't come out on top of is dismissed instantly as being irrelevant on this board.
I won't speak for others, but I don't "instantly dismiss" any of these. My personal take on the points you raise:
1. Innovation. MB has certainly innovated in 120 years far more than Lexus has in 15. The more relevant question imho is how innovation compares over the past 5, 10, or 15 years, and given the importance of hybrid to the industry the answer is less clear.
2. Styling. MB wins on styling, you won't get any argument from me there. And I'll admit that the current LS copies the previous generation S's exterior styling in a major way and that it is despicable that Lexus chose to do that.
3. Safety. MB has more safety features but I have yet to see anyone convincingly demonstrate that this outweighs the safety impact of MB's reliability issues. For instance, how many people have died due to the SC's lack of rollbars, vs how many have died due to MB's brake reliability issues?
4. 0-60 times. Everytime I post the followingÖ
LS430 290hp, 320 lb-ft, 0-60 5.9sec
S430 275hp, 295 lb-ft, 0-60 6.9sec
Öthe response is either:
a. "Who cares about straight line acceleration? Itís handling that counts." To which I ask: why do you prefer MB over BMW?
b. "You ought to be comparing the 4.3 liter LS against a 5.0 liter S." To which I ask: how is this a more fair comparison?
So it seems to me that it is the MB crowd that is dismissive of 0-60 times, not the Lexus crowd.
5. Handling. Again Iíll admit that MB has an edge over Lexus. And again Iíll ask: if handling is paramount, why not BMW rather than MB?
Mar 31, 2005 (1:27 pm)
I always find it curious that some elevate exterior styling to such high importance, and then turn around and denigrate anyone who dares mention the superiority of Lexus' stereo systems.
Neither exterior styling nor stereos have any direct impact on the driving experience per se (i.e., "handling" or "fun") that I would have thought "enthusiasts" place paramount. We're basically talking about "eye candy" (styling) vs "ear candy" (stereos).
Unless one sits in his garage staring at his car for hours on end, how much time does one actually spend viewing the outside of one's car? 2-3 minutes a day? 10-20 hours a year? Versus how much time listening to the car stereo? 200-500 hours a year?
I'm not saying that stereos either are or should be more important than exterior styling. But I find it curious that the germancarfans seem so dismissive of them. Could it be that they are dismissed because Lexus does them better than the Germans?
#8791 of 24726 why argue
Mar 31, 2005 (1:43 pm)
Why not let the market speaks for itself? MB is losing customers while other Japanese carmakers are gaining customers. It is a fact. German carmakers had their days when there was no Japanese competitors, now they are SO scare. Why, they have to worry about the Japanese now and the Korean and Chinese in the future. MB fans, wake up to reality.
#8792 of 24726 oh yeah footie, one more
Mar 31, 2005 (2:12 pm)
"...or add more useless gears to their automatic transmissions."
If I recall correctly, when Lexus did a face-lift of the LS about two years or so ago, I believe they added a 6-speed auto to the drivetrain, which was at or near the same time (maybe sooner) Benz introduced their 7-speed.
syswei- I do think the conti spur is a rebadged phaeton. I think any time a car is sharing parts from another brand, it takes away from what makes a premium or super premium car special, whether it's the example given, or a volvo S40/mazda3/ford focus. I couldn't own the bently without thinking about the fact that a similar car (DNA-wise) flies a VW from the front of it. BMW (except for the RR/7) and Mercedes-benz still build their own car. I am well aware that the chrysler crossfire is a 170 SLK, and the 300/magnum are using some components from the 210 E-class, but that's only because mercedes isn't selling those cars anymore.
#8793 of 24726 stroudman
Mar 31, 2005 (2:16 pm)
I guess I can see your point of view on rebadging...you seem to be saying that feeling you've bought something unique is important to you. I guess on this issue (like many other issues discussed) it is a personal preference. My own personal preference is more along the lines of what a car IS or OFFERS rather than how unique it is. To each his own.
#8794 of 24726 Re: oh yeah footie, one more [stroudman] YEP
Mar 31, 2005 (3:32 pm)
MB added another gear, going to 7 in 2004, when Lexus added another going to 6.
I heard someone say comically that Mercedes did it for redundancy reasons, so you'd have 6 when one wasn't working for some reason ;=).
#8795 of 24726 The ignorance of Mercedes
Mar 31, 2005 (3:35 pm)
"Mercedes chief Eckhard Cordes, who said earlier this year that his drive to resolve the quality problems would hit this year's earnings, said the cars Mercedes makes now are of high quality and that the recall addressed legacy problems."
This is one of the worst PR insertions I have ever seen. I could have a field day with this one - it's that bad, but I'll keep it simple.
In effect it says - "So let's see - you dropped $90K on one of our cars before my watch. Too bad - you bought one of our problem legacy cars. We make them a lot better today now that I am in charge. But rest assured I will repair your legacy car to the standards we now have in place - but only if they force me to recall them. But don't worry - when you buy a new Mercedes it will be built to the standards that your old car should have been. Trust me it will never happen again as we have completely fixed all the problems we had." Yeah, right!
Man - if I dropped $50-100K on an MB in the past few years and read I had a legacy problem of theirs on my hands and in my garage I'd be one P'D off customer. I had hopes for this guy but he comes across just as arrogant and ignorant of his customers as the others. Who the heck is in charge of MB public relations? When will MB ever get it??