Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#8713 of 24726 I don't know
Mar 28, 2005 (10:06 am)
Had dinner with some friends Saturday night and someone brought another couple along. These people had a 2000 SL500 with electronic problem after electronic problem and just dumped it after 31K miles for an XKE. Final straw was when the AC failed completely and Benz wanted $4K to fix it. Car stickered at $89K and he paid $87K and the AC fails so quickly. Imagine laying out that type of cash and your AC fails and a bunch of folks in cars 25-30% of the price idle up to you with perfectly functioning units. Guy is steamed at MB and told me I'd be nuts to want an SL as current gen also has plenty of woes. Person also has lots of problems (again electronics) with a 2002 S-class on lease and says MB folks he knows are having plenty of problems as well. I think this MB contagion is pretty widespread. I can't remember the last person who said they had a problem free Benz. This is another one of those long-time MB core customers who can't fathom what has happened to them and is exiting stage right. He will go Lexus or Jag for the family sedan when the lease ends in a few months.
Mar 28, 2005 (10:18 am)
SBC is a Bosch product. Mercedes has a soon-to-expire exclusivity agreement on them, and they first premiered in the 5th gen sl-class, and are now in the e- and cls-class as well. It's basically brake-by-wire, where the input from the brake pedal tells a computerized braking module to stop the car. It has alot of advanced features, and if the entire system were to crash, there is a mechanical back-up that will still stop the car quite safely. You can even pull the plug under the hood and test it yourself, if you wanted to. The system is noisy, and at first difficult to modulate for some drivers, but it's not dangerous.
Mar 28, 2005 (12:06 pm)
Thank you for the response.
Mar 28, 2005 (3:28 pm)
The few people who encountered an issue with SBC got to learn firsthand what the system felt like in mechanical, or back-up mode which, compared to conventional braking, did require longer distances and greater force. As far as I know, there weren't any cases of catastrophic brake failures with SBC as the culprit. I could be wrong.
#8718 of 24726 Re: Maybe Cordes is starting to get it...then again, maybe not [garyh1]
Mar 28, 2005 (5:39 pm)
They have just bit off more than they can chew while they tried to redefine themselves. Smart is a failure to date, Maybach is below expectations (this brand would't be profitable if it exceeded expectations anyway, but it's small), MB just is lacking the ability to lead in non-engineering automotive tasks and then you have the Chrysler deal. That was a lot to handle and they are not a volume crew. Look at Toyota and how it hits it just right on these big issues. A bigger success with Lexus in year one than was expected in 1990 and a bigger than expected success right off the bat with Scion now. The volume guys will always nail expansion better than a boutique guy in any heavy manufacturing industry. Again - its the way business works.
Is he being honest - yes - given he can only say so much. As was pointed out - what he said was a big admission. One thing though - the quality improvement cost is way off. A million Euros is not even worth a mention. You can bet your life that is a small fraction of the cost and I mean extremely small.
#8719 of 24726 Re: Maybe Cordes is starting to get it...then again, maybe not [garyh1]
Mar 28, 2005 (6:45 pm)
I have only one additonal comment: if he is so morally bound to fix the problems why the footdragging on a worldwide three year warranty? Hello?? A little inconsistency there, Herr Cordes?
PS Did someone above really mean to post that a couple they knew dumped a MB for an XKE for superior reliability?? Maybe an XJ but not the XKE two seater.
#8720 of 24726 Re: Maybe Cordes is starting to get it...then again, maybe not [ljflx]
Mar 28, 2005 (6:57 pm)
boutique brand....MB? if any brand in this thread is a boutique brand it is Lexus. MB's are sold world wide. Lexus's are sold only in the US and maybe now in Japan. isn't MB/ Chrysler the worlds 4th largest automaker?
#8721 of 24726 Re: Maybe Cordes is starting to get it...then again, maybe not [denaliinpa]
Mar 28, 2005 (7:25 pm)
"Lexus's are sold only in the US and maybe now in Japan."
Check your facts. Lexus' is sold in Europe although with minimal success. But you also have to remember that MBs sales in Europe are way overblown due to the the huge volume of low-priced benz's they sell with cloth trim, hubcaps, and small engines for taxi duty and to regular consumers. Otherwise, Lexus are sold in the Middle East(a big market), Australia, the Far East(china, Taiwan, Singapore, etc.).
"isn't MB/ Chrysler the worlds 4th largest automaker?"
Isn't Toyota the 3rd largest? or is that 2nd largest?
#8722 of 24726 Re: Maybe Cordes is starting to get it...then again, maybe not [maxhonda99]
Mar 28, 2005 (8:01 pm)
yeah...Lexus sells 20000 units per year over the entire continent!!! now if that isn't a boutique brand what is? and last i checked MB's are truly sold WORLD WIDE.... yeah...thats just how business works!