Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#8485 of 24726 Re: Lexus' 18 months Roadmap [oac]
Mar 10, 2005 (10:38 pm)
Yep they all have a lot on the way, but I think Lexus and Mercedes might have more product on the way than BMW does.
Mercedes' roadmap for 2006 and 2007:
2006 E350 (on sale now, 268hp V6)
2006 E55 Wagon (special order only)
2006 S65 AMG (On sale next month)
2006 CLS500 and CLS55 AMG (on sale now!)
2006 C350 (268hp V6)
2006 C280 (227hp V6)
2006 C230 (200hp V6)
All on sale in June of 2005.
SLK280 (227hp V6) On sale this summer.
ML350 (268hp V6)
ML500 (302hp V8)
Both on sale last week of April 2005
CLK - facelifted model range, including new CLK350. On sale this fall.
R-Class - debuts at New York Autoshow and goes on sale late fall/early winter 2005.
S-Class - debuts at the IAA (Frankfurt Auto Show) in Sept 2005, debuts here at Detroit 2006, goes on sale first quarter of 2006.
2007 and beyond: E, SL facelift w/new V8s for MY2007. Entirely new C-Class for MY2008. New CLK in 2008.
Mar 11, 2005 (5:19 am)
What about the G? Also I heard that its going to be just slightly shorter than a Suburban...what do you hear? IMHO that might be a little too big for the luxury market.
#8487 of 24726 Mercedes Safety
Mar 11, 2005 (5:22 am)
Regarding the Princess Diana tragedy I would like to point out that the driver wasn’t fatally cue-balled by the unrestrained back-seat passengers who were probably projectiles in that crash. This could be testament to the integrity of the front head restraints and seats which I have no doubt is designed into the S. The again, I don't know, was there a privacy partition in that vehicle? That alone could have done them in. Also, it is hard to know what the dynamics were in that incident—the direction of the forces and level of impact—it is virtually impossible to speculate unless it has undergone a thorough engineering analysis which is also speculation, similar to being unable to calculate where pool balls will be positioned after a break. My engineering intuition tells me that because the driver survived there was mostly frontal impact. Surviving lateral forces in a car going that speed is a tough proposition.
The important thing to remember in this safety debate is the original point made when it was started a couple of days ago. With all of MB’s reliability problems, it is very reasonable for a buyer to speculate whether safety components are included within their realm of problems. I can easily see how someone focused on safety would raise an eyebrow and say "later for Mercedes"—regardless of the truth. That said, I personally believe the safety integrity of the Mercedes helped save the driver in the Princess tragedy and to suggest anything regarding Lexus here is indeed ridiculous.
#8488 of 24726 Re: CR and the X5 [hpowders]
Mar 11, 2005 (5:23 am)
What CR is saying is that all-red means 'excellent' but NOT relative to all cars of the same model year, its more like relative to all cars in the survey, accross all years. So if you look at every single model in the survey, you see lots and lots of red for 2004 model year cars, but for 1997 models, less red and more black. So if a 2004 model has red but less than other models, especially in categories rated as more important, it still gets an X overall.
#8489 of 24726 Folks please
Mar 11, 2005 (5:38 am)
Once again -- it is time for those of you continuing to argue about the safety issue to agree to disagree and MOVE ON.
If the only way to get you to stop is to remove the posts that continue, that's what I'll do.
#8490 of 24726 Re: Lexus' 18 months Roadmap [oac]
Mar 11, 2005 (6:09 am)
OAC - That $100K+ LS is a done deal. When I brought my car in for service and stopped at the dealership (separate locations for me) I got some new info. The car will be muscular, more sporty and a bit larger and will have 3 engines, the 460 (350HP), a 460 hybrid (450HP) and a V10 hybrid (600HP) for the super LS. Lexus research, despite what anyone on this board thinks they know says no problem whatsoever selling $100-150K cars. Lexus name is very highly regarded in all US research done. By the way the new GS, next LS and new $150K sports car are all Italian designs. Supposedly the front of the $150K sports car will be redone (Lexus wants it's grill on it) but the general sheet metal will be what we have already seen. Jury is out on whether an LS LWB is available in production to just the two larger motors, the super LS or all three cars. Betting is that it will be available to all three. $55K entry price for a car with no options and $58K premium car is finished. Prices will be $65-75K for base LS (ML and nav will all be std. now, you won't be able to get premium car lacking them supposedly), $75-85k for the hybrid and $100-125K for the V10 hybrid. The super LS will come to market at same time as, or a few months behind the next LS based on current planning. New LX470 will be a $70K+ SUV with hybrid options and the GX will also go to hybrid options and get a bit larger in size. RX is an even bigger hit than they ever imagined and they won't mess with it while the ES will get a complete redo with hybrid options there too.
#8491 of 24726 Re: Folks please [pat]
Mar 11, 2005 (6:43 am)
Okay, let me amend this.
It is the arguing and the nitpicking about the safety issue that needs to stop. It's the saying the same things over and over to the same people over and over as if the more you post, the more likely it is that the other person will just cave in. And of course that ain't gonna happen from either side.
If we can have a calm and thoughtful conversation without the insistence on fighting about whether Lexus is or is not as safety conscious as MB is, that would be great.
Mar 11, 2005 (7:45 am)
"By the way the new GS, next LS and new $150K sports car are all Italian designs.
Do you know the designer because every article says these were designed by Lexus in Japan, especially that sports car concept. The GS itself started out as an Italian design in 1993, and has since been altered greatly. Lexus is working with an Italian designer, I read that somewhere, but the cars you're seeing now the GS and that sports car concepts aren't of Italian design, if they are thats most unfortunate. The next LS might be though.
All luxury car brands are highly reguarded, at least the ones we discuss on this board, doesn't mean there won't be price resistance. Every brand has their limits.
I'll believe a 600hp Lexus sedan when I see it. I hardly see Toyota approving such a car with such a pointless amount of horsepower.
Mar 11, 2005 (7:52 am)
Definitely pointless for me personally, but in terms of helping the brand image, no more pointless than the "S65 - 630hp V12 10/2006" you listed not too many posts ago.
Mar 11, 2005 (7:56 am)
Right, which I why I don't see why Lexus buyers would get excited about 600hp because it seemed to me any discussion about hp was pointless in the past.