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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 845 of 2473

#8433 of 24723 Re: accident avoidance [sv7887] by hpowders

Mar 09, 2005 (7:55 pm)

Replying to: sv7887 (Mar 09, 2005 5:37 pm)
The BMW 530i was also rated the highest for accident avoidance along with the 2 Mercedes in the April 2005 CR Auto issue.
Both Mercedes were reviewed with 5-speed automatics.
The E in June 2004. The S in November 2003.
Both the E and the S received CR's worst reliability ratings when reviewed in these issues.
The BMW 530i received the safe "new" reliability rating in the June 2004 issue of CR. It was reviewed with the 6 speed automatic.

#8434 of 24723 ok by princeabubu

Mar 09, 2005 (9:16 pm)

Oh ok, I was just wondering how they went about obtaining that information.

#8435 of 24723 Re: Oac… LS and the new Lexus design language [designman] by oac

Mar 09, 2005 (9:38 pm)

Replying to: designman (Mar 09, 2005 6:24 am)
Thanks Designman for your thoughts on the IS. C&D is conducting a poll on the style of the new 3 and new IS. Guess who is winning ?... It ain't the Bimmer....
 
Talking of the future LS, MT did a sketch-pad for the new LS (and the new IS).
 
http://www.motortrend.com/future/spied/112_0406_sketch/index.html
 
Obviously, they missed the boat on the IS by a mile. Methinks they'd be far-off as well on the new LS. But that LS sketch ain't that bad tho'...
 
If many of Lexus fans lost sleep wondering what the new IS design was going to be, info on the next LS will even be tighter to find. I expect it to start the auto show rounds by next Spring. Maybe debut in Geneva or NY. It's gonna be one heck of a release, and I cannot wait for it to arrive here. I got my check in my hand waiting/salivating for the next LS.
 
18 months to go... I'll start my countdown and do it on a monthly basis....

#8436 of 24723 Re: What's the point.... in this pointless exercise ? [ljflx] by merc1

Mar 09, 2005 (11:04 pm)

Replying to: ljflx (Mar 09, 2005 6:45 am)
I agree that this conversation has reached absurd levels, but say it all on the part of the German car fans simply isn't true at all.
 
Rear side airbags don't make a difference and are there for bragging rights? Tell me that is logical and sane.
 
The SL/CL/S600/S55 AMG are not luxury cars? This statement is credible?
 
Mercedes' safety technology, which in its basic form is present in some form or another in every other car on the road - doesn't work when needed? There still has been no proof of this given, and this sounds logical to you? You're actually buying this? Of all the former Mercedes owners you know which one of them had an accident in which their MB's safety tech didn't work?
 
Not a single reply about roll over protection in a convertible from a single Lexus fanatic? I guess it isn't important right? I can't even think of a single German convertible that doesn't have rollover protection, even the 20K VW Bettle has it. Yet a CD player in the trunk of a SL compared to being the dash like the SC430 is something of greater concern? Talk about being mired in nonsense.
 
Why is that a debate about safety or anything concerning Lexus reverts back to a reliablity survey? You can't address the issues being presented?
 
You mean to tell me that these other issues are so beyond the defense or grasp of the Lexus fans here to the point that you have dig up a survey about MB's reliability in Germany, yet in the same breath when a German car fan says something about MB,BMW and Audi on the worldwide stage it doesn't count, yet a German survey does to all of us who live in the U.S.? This is highly hypocritical.
 
Then a parting paragraph that still depends on one MB owner is supposed to be taken as the typical experience of any MB owner, yet the things the LS has had to be recalled for doesn't exist?
 
Your argument is just as absurd as the others because you don't answer the question or issue that was originally being debated, only more about surveys and a lame website about S-Class problems, like no Toyota/Lexus ever has problems.
 
Now we have another Lexus supporter implying that a Mercedes isnt' safe because of the Princess Di accident. This is a logical arguement to you? Lets ignore the obvious desperation to even mention such a thing, and remember that the only person wearing their seatbelt survived what had to be a horrific crash in what was a tank of a Mercedes, the W140 S-Class. The car did its job and saved the life of the belted occupant. The car hit a sold concrete support for a tunnel, which doesn't give one inch, and yet the person belted survived. If anything this is a ringing endorsement of how safe a Mercedes really is.
 
It takes two to participate in an "absurd" conversation, and here we have many on both sides.
 
M

#8439 of 24723 sv7887 by merc1

Mar 09, 2005 (11:19 pm)

" Does the addition of an rear side airbag make a car safer than another? Conflicting data on that one. As the small car crash data showed, the cars equipped with them standard did worse than the Corolla optionally equipped with them. The Corolla did fare poorly without the airbags..So there is no clear answer here.
 
It would seem to me that having these rear side airbags in the LS surely wouldn't hurt either. Having them would only make the car safer. You seem to imply that it wouldn't make a difference, and I'm sure Lexus doesn't agree with you on that one because you can bet the 2007 LS will have them. Question: did you look at the website that tiag_m5 posted in which rear side airbags are illustrated in where they are positioned in regards to a baby seat in the rear or a small child in the rear? You mean to tell me that a small child or babyseat that isn't in the center position wouldn't benefit from a rear side airbag, a air-bag curtain isn't going to help a child in this situation.
 
You can't use the Corolla here its a totally different class of car, and doesn't apply.
 
M

#8440 of 24723 Re: S class safe? [ctsang] by tiag_m5

Mar 09, 2005 (11:35 pm)

Replying to: ctsang (Feb 20, 2005 11:52 pm)
If MB is so safe, why did Princess Diana die? I bet she would survive if she were in a Lexus.
 
I was waiting for someone to bring that up If you knew any of the details, you would know that this only proves how safe MB is. Let me explain:
 
The 1994 S-Class that Princess Diana was riding in had the most advanced safety features and structural design of its day. The estimated speed of impact into the concrete pillar was over 80 mph. Only ONE person in that car was wearing a seatbelt... Guess who survived? Yep, the body guard in the front passenger seat lived to tell the tale. Everyone else who wasn't wearing a seatbelt perished... including Diana. If you don't wear your seatbelt, ANY and ALL of a vehicle's passive safety features are rendered next to useless. It doesn't matter how well the crumple zones or airbags were designed because they all depend on seatbelt use to work effectively.
 
This crash is really a testament to Mercedes safety. The fact that the only person wearing his seatbelt survived a head on crash into a concrete pillar at 80mph is simply amazing. Kudos to Mercedes for engineering such a safe car... it's really a pity that Diana chose not to take advantage of it.

#8441 of 24723 tiag_m5 by merc1

Mar 09, 2005 (11:37 pm)

Exactly! That really was a desperate (and thoughtless) move to even mention that because the facts speak for themselves, in favor of Mercedes-Benz!
 
M

#8442 of 24723 Re: What's the point.... in this pointless exercise ? [michael_mattox] by tiag_m5

Mar 10, 2005 (12:00 am)

Replying to: michael_mattox (Mar 09, 2005 10:29 am)
I have yet to see a LINK with safety data Proving the S Class is safer then the LS 430...You would think a German car guy would find something like that...IF IT EXISTS.
 
This is precisely the problem; it doesn't exist. There isn't any data collected by any agency that illustrates relative fatality rates for different cars. And because there is no data to analyze that would tell us which car produces fewer fatalities, we have all the more reason to trust MB instead of Lexus. It makes a lot of sense if you think about it. In case you didn't catch it the last 20 times I posted, we have several basic premises to consider when evaluating the relative safety of MB and Lexus vehicles:
 
- Mercedes is consistently on the forefront of safety innovation and has been for 100 years.
- Mercedes introduces new safety features and structural designs before anyone else (as do Volvo and BMW).
- Mercedes makes new safety features standard on all models when other make them optional.
- Mercedes offers more standard safety features than Lexus.
- Mercedes has an accident investigation team that analyses real world crashes to improve the designs of its vehicles.
- Mercedes conducts internal crash testing rivaled only by Volvo in its extensiveness.
 
The converse is true of Lexus:
 
- Lexus is never on the forefront of safety innovation.
- Lexus takes many years to adopt new safety features after its rivals have already done so.
- Lexus makes many safety features optional or half-assed when rivals have already made them standard.
- Lexus currently offers fewer standard safety features than Mercedes across the entire model line.
 
Given these facts, it seems pretty obvious what the priorities of each company are. Clearly, safety isn't a priority with Lexus while it most certainly is a TOP priority with Mercedes.
 
Think about it this way: Pretend you have no prior brand bias towards either Lexus or Mercedes. Based on the truths outlined above, who builds a safer car? All the evidence points to Mercedes. Nothing would suggest that Lexus is even remotely concerned with safety in the way that Mercedes is.
 
Now I'm not saying that the LS, or any other Lexus, is a deathtrap. But, given what we know about these companies the evidence suggests that Mercedes has a greater concern for safety than does Lexus. I would hedge my bet towards Mercedes offering better crash protection in the real world. And as far as safety is concerned, I only want the best... I don't want "almost" or "good enough" for myself or my family.

Messages Page 845 of 2473

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