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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 842 of 2473

#8403 of 24723 Re: GS [gs450] by merc1

Mar 09, 2005 (12:10 am)

Replying to: gs450 (Mar 08, 2005 10:09 am)
"BTW Merc i went to test drive the 430 yesterday and although i am in agreement with you about mercedes designs in general being more superior to lexus (can't stand the ES in particular) i have to say that i have to disagree with you about the new 430. I think lexus has finally taken a step in the right direction designwise with this new car (finally!)."
 
Well there is really nothing for us to disagree on about that, styling is everyone's own thing.
 
I personally find the GS to have way too much wheelbase and too much overhang and most of all too much of hump-back stance to be good looking, but thats just me. I guess when I hear new design direction I think of something that doesn't look like the previous car and/or anything else current in the brands lineup, like the Mercedes CLS or 7-Series back in 2002 (for better or worse).
 
M

#8404 of 24723 Re: What's the point.... in this pointless exercise ? [denaliinpa] by oac

Mar 09, 2005 (12:14 am)

Replying to: denaliinpa (Mar 08, 2005 9:54 pm)
Didn't want to get into this *safety* issue, but since you asked Denali, let me oblige by showing you links to an LS that went around a bend too fast at 80mph+. Lost control and car hit a post and obviously totalled. Driver lived to tell the story.... So how did he survive such a horrific crash if the LS was so unsafe as being claimed here by some MB fans ???
 
BEFORE
http://www.djxeno.net/Pics/MYLS3.JPG
 
AFTER
http://www.djxeno.net/Pics/MYLS4.JPG
 
Oh BTW, he bought another LS since, according to him, the LS saved his life and he would feel safer in another one... (see link)
 
NEW RIDE
http://www.djxeno.net/Pics/MYLS2.JPG

#8406 of 24723 Re: Oac [oac] by merc1

Mar 09, 2005 (12:17 am)

Replying to: oac (Mar 08, 2005 6:38 pm)
"Sounds good to me. Now would you do me a favor and go back for a long hard look at the new GS and see if your views would change or not. That car is a beauty up close.... But to appreciate this, you may need to leave your rose-colored glasses at home on in your car while at the Lex shop."
 
Just for you I'm going to go and check it out, but I seriously doubt that anything will change considering I've seen the car over and over for over a year now. I never take the glasses with me when I visit a competitor showroom, they wouldn't let me in! Seriously though I don't see how you could think such ill-proportioned car is a "beauty". The car looks terrible, especially in lighter colors.
 
M

#8407 of 24723 tiag_m5 by merc1

Mar 09, 2005 (12:40 am)

You're wasting your time on that point, you'll never get any proof about Mercedes' safety equipment not working because this claim is one in a long line of claims that have never been proven, at any time on this board in years. First it was that Lexus takes Mercedes' innovations and perfects them. Now it is Mercedes' safety equipment doesn't work. Neither of these claims has ever been proven, only stated over and over again.
 
I think its time to move on now because no proof of any of this will ever been given because it simply doesn't exist. Like I said 24 hours ago, when you read things about rear side airbags being gimmicks for bragging rights or you see the total silence about roll-over protection on a convertible, or when one thinks that a Lexus is so perfect to the point of where replacement parts are not needed, its obvious the original poster has nothing logical to debate with so the constant repeating starts. Logic would tell a level person that Mercedes has been making cars in much greater numbers than Lexus for only about 100+ years long than Lexus so there might be a huge market out there for replacement parts, and even on newer ones because worldwide Mercedes sells way more cars than Lexus does. I say worldwide because the original disingenuous post included a foreign website about replacement parts, which didn't even seperate Lexus from Toyota.
 
I'm really laughing at the Bill Gates and what he drives and why. This is hilarious. Like someone here knows him and knows why he drives what. Plenty of rich people drive regular cars that cost less than the ones we're debating here, so what! Doesn't say anything about the car, just the person. On that level, Mercedes are driven from all types of rich folks on every continent across the world, in countries where there is no "Lexus". Then you get a response about a dependability survey that indicates that Lexus' safety equipment works. WHAT? I didn't realize that CR and JDP surveyed folks on whether or not their airbags worked or not? This is the silliest mess I've read, well in the last few hours.
 
M

#8408 of 24723 Re: What's the point.... in this pointless exercise ? [oac] by tiag_m5

Mar 09, 2005 (12:55 am)

Replying to: oac (Mar 09, 2005 12:14 am)
So how did he survive such a horrific crash if the LS was so unsafe as being claimed here by some MB fans ??
 
Wow, from the looks of that twisted pile of metal I would say that it was by a stroke of pure luck that he survived. And again, I never said the LS was unsafe, I just said that the S was safer...
 
Oh BTW, he bought another LS since, according to him, the LS saved his life and he would feel safer in another one... (see link)
 
Luck saved his life... not Lexus corner cutting. For all you know, he could have survived that crash in a Kia. No doubt the S class would have held up better anyway. I guess all the people that survived crashes in their Dodge Neons probably feel that the Neon is a pretty safe car... Obviously it isn't.

#8409 of 24723 hpowders by merc1

Mar 09, 2005 (1:26 am)

What I don't understand is that one minute I read about how unreliable the X5 is and that it has had so many recalls, yet CR says there isn't a reliability problem? Can you explain this?
 
tiag_m5,
 
I'm enjoying the webpage you linked in your earlier post. Lots of info on Mercedes' safety programs, that far exceed government regulations. Its amazing how rear side airbags come into play in certain types crashes, yet here it doesn't matter.
 
M

#8410 of 24723 Re: Side Airbags [tiag_m5] by sv7887

Mar 09, 2005 (4:41 am)

Replying to: tiag_m5 (Mar 08, 2005 6:45 pm)
Hi All,
 
The original quote was this:
 
"Four of the vehicles tested -- the Elantra, New Beetle, Forenza and Spectra -- have standard, head-protecting side air bags. But the institute's chief operating officer, Adrian Lund, said the cars had poor structure that failed to prevent injuries to the torso and pelvis."
 
The Corolla did indeed do better, but these cars still did worse. It doesn't look like a definitive conclusion here. Despite what anyone says, there is no hard data to confirm what either party is saying.
 
I said: "They did say it wasn't a fair comparison, and likened the LS430 to wearing slippery ballerina shoes if I remember the quote correctly." If that isn't an admission what is? You're comparing someone wearing Reeboks to ballerina shoes...This isn't rocket science...BTW Euro Sport is a no cost option, whereas the S500 is a 30K price difference.
 
I drove the '03 S430 Class initially. It had a CD based NAV. (I know the '05 Does have DVD though) It wasn't impressive at all. If I remember correctly the CD changer was still in the trunk as well. I didn't see what is so "Athletic" about it. Maybe the S500 is different, I didn't drive it so I don't know. For $78K you are getting more because you are paying more! Compare a $71K LS430 Ultra to get a better idea of value. The only reason Electronics is in Lexus' favor is because of the reliability of Japanese electronics. Reading the surveys it seems Electronics is what is driving down Mercedes' ranking right now.
 
Maybe BMW has the highest residual value overall, but the LS430 has the best in class one of 64%. So not only does it cost less, it holds its' value better too. As far as value and reliability goes, the LS is the better deal. I'd give MB the nod on Safety innovation, BMW the nod on performance, and Jaguar the nod on "style." To each his own.
 
Granted different consumers have different priorities. It's like my fascination with Jaguar..Sure, it's not going to be as reliable as my LS but it offers better styling and a different experience..I think you will all agree spending $60K on any car is not a fully "Logical" decision. So it is no surprise we see alot of emotional debate on this board.
 
SV

#8411 of 24723 Re: hpowders [merc1] by hpowders

Mar 09, 2005 (5:16 am)

Replying to: merc1 (Mar 09, 2005 1:26 am)
The predicted reliability for the 2005 X5 is worse than average from CR.
But the data from 2003 and 2004 concerning 14 possible trouble points show above average reliability and it is just these data that CR says it uses for predictive purposes.
Therefore, based on their accumulated data, the X5 should have been given a better than average reliability rating for 2005 in my opinion.

#8412 of 24723 Re: What's the point.... in this pointless exercise ? [tiag_m5] by hpowders

Mar 09, 2005 (5:19 am)

Replying to: tiag_m5 (Mar 09, 2005 12:55 am)
I have to agree. As much as I am currently leaning toward the LS 430, this guy survived that mess by pure luck.

Messages Page 842 of 2473

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