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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 840 of 2473

#8383 of 24723 Re: take off the German blinders II [tiag_m5] by hpowders

Mar 08, 2005 (8:34 pm)

Replying to: tiag_m5 (Mar 08, 2005 7:43 pm)
I agree that CU can probably do a better job on reliability.
I notice that the reliability rating for the 2005 BMW 5 series in its auto issue is the worst they give out-a black circle(bottom of page 42). Yet if you go to the back of the issue where all the cars are rated for reliability scores listing 14 trouble spots from engine down to body hardware(page 83) for the years 2002, 2003 and 2004, there isn't one black circle or half a black circle for the 5 series.
For 2004, the 5 series was given 13 red circles or half-circles(their highest reliability ratings) out of 14 categories! No black circles. One average reliability grade for power equipment. These marks indicate a very reliable vehicle! How then can CU forecast a much poorer than average reliability rating for 2005 based on their data as they do on the bottom of page 42? Very confusing and disturbing.
I will try to write them on their website to see what gives.

#8384 of 24723 Re: Side Airbags [tiag_m5] by michael_mattox

Mar 08, 2005 (8:42 pm)

Replying to: tiag_m5 (Mar 08, 2005 6:49 pm)
Tiag:
 
What we do know about safety is:
 
1) The safety features in a Lexus are perfected by the Lexus engineers to be as close to perfect as possible before they go into the car...No rushing junk into the market so they can claim #1...
 
2) The Safety features in the Lexus will work every time...As their Dependability ratings prove.
 
3) When The Stats are viewed...When fatalities are counted, when injuries are looked into...It is the Lexus that is right at the top..THAT IS WHY BILL GATES BOUGHT A LEXUS..SO HIS KIDS WOULD BE SAFE EVEN THOUGH DADDY MIGHT DRIVE TOO FAST.

#8385 of 24723 Re: take off the German blinders II [tiag_m5] by ljflx

Mar 08, 2005 (8:48 pm)

Replying to: tiag_m5 (Mar 08, 2005 7:43 pm)
"Okay, so maybe my comment was a bit exaggerated."
 
As is everything else you say - like this one - "Not to mention that the S430 is more athletic than the LS by ten fold".
 
Your opinion of course. I drove both cars often and have to wonder what the heck you are talking about. I had to move to an S500 for proper comparison becaues the S430 felt underpowered.
 
Pricing and options - Come on - were you born yesterday or something?? You get an S430 with a bunch of things a Lexus doesn't have standard and its base is $17K more than the Lexus. Now add those options in on the Lexus and add in the things the Lexus has that the S430 lacks and the car price difference drops to $7k. My interpretation is very different than yours. One company forces them down your throat and forces you to pay, thereby limiting your choice and the other let's you make the choices on price vs added equipment. What is the cost difference of $7k really attributable to for the most part - efficiency of Lexus mfr. vs inefficiency of MB's. Even MB themselves acknowledges the latter in DCX's latest Wall Street report which is why they are about to go into cost cutting mode.

#8386 of 24723 Re: CR ratings [topspin628] by tiag_m5

Mar 08, 2005 (8:49 pm)

Replying to: topspin628 (Mar 08, 2005 8:29 pm)
From my perspective, I believe that CR is spot on in it's reliability ratings. When I ask people about the cars they own and when I factor in my own experience it seems to back up what CR claims.
 
CR's ratings just don't make much sense. Take the X5 for example. They marked it with a black X as worse than average predicted reliability for 2005... Yet at the same time, we see that the X5 has been improving reliability in all areas since 2000. Furthermore, we see that over the last 2 or 3 years, the X5 has "above average" to "excellent" in all categories except one or two "average" scores for things like electric.
 
On the whole, the X5 appears to be a very reliable car, and furthermore that its reliability has been improving every year. Given these facts, I'm mnot sure I understand how CR manages to predict a below average overall score for this model year. It just doesn't make any since.
 
For example, I know two people who have the BMW 7 series and both had horror stories with it. I also have asked several owners of MB S Class and have found very mixed results.
 
While were talking about personal experiences, I just want to throw in my two cents. Over the last 15 years I have owned 1 Volvo, 2 Mercedes and 3 BMWs. Apparnetly I just have really good luck because none of these cars has presented me with any major problems. I have had less than a few electrical glitches with my Mercedes and one faulty door lock actuator with my current BMW. The day my Mercedes leaves me stranded on the side of a dark country highway with no cell reception, I might consider buying a more reliable car. But so far, my experience with European cars has been nothing but positive on the whole.
 
Go figure...

#8387 of 24723 Re: More of the same... [tiag_m5] by michael_mattox

Mar 08, 2005 (8:53 pm)

Replying to: tiag_m5 (Mar 08, 2005 7:30 pm)
Wasn't there just a big recall at Mercedes because the sensors that disconnect the Battery and Fuel line were defective...I BELIEVE THERE WAS.
 
What lexus does a Rav 4 and a pickup and a chevy share parts with? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
But the big cost saver is Quality...and the savings from not having to do a lot of warrenty work.
 
If the systems all work flawlessly why do marketers have to stock the Mercedes ECS...they wouldn't stock something there isn't a market for..I suppose they are stocking up right now on those sensors I mentioned earlier.

#8388 of 24723 Re: Side Impact Airbags [tiag_m5] by denaliinpa

Mar 08, 2005 (9:00 pm)

Replying to: tiag_m5 (Mar 08, 2005 8:21 pm)
tiag m5 great links.
the links you provided show the photo i was trying to find. the S class being T boned by
a WEDGED SHAPE battering ram. it is amazing how safe the S class is. hats of to MB. i wish i could find some photos of the A8 being tested.
i can't prove this in anyway but i truly feel that Toyota and Lexus design their vehicles to perform well in the standard tests but not for real world collisions.
 
hey guys the LS is a fine car but for me it is not equal to the S. ask yourself what's more important.....CR's blessing or surviving a violent crash.
 
as for the price difference between the S430 and the LS. i think a couple of things are being omitted. the S was awd and also the long wheelbase version. these two options alone don't make up the complete dollar difference but i would think it changes the equation by 5k.
 
tiag m5...i had an 03 M5. fantastic automobile.
the only car i have ever missed after i sold it.

#8389 of 24723 Re: take off the German blinders II [tiag_m5] by michael_mattox

Mar 08, 2005 (9:05 pm)

Replying to: tiag_m5 (Mar 08, 2005 7:43 pm)
tiag:
 
The X means beware, Probably because they have had problems with the drive system which is not one of the catagories..This is particularly true of the drive systems on 4WD Suv.
 
The X does not mean unreliable but rather Beware could be unreliable.
 
It is amazing that I know this since Lexus never gets an X...Actually on one ever has and that was the GX470 in 03 But to make up for it they have lots of red chek marks on all their cars...The GX470 got that Chek in 04

#8390 of 24723 Re: Side Airbags [michael_mattox] by tiag_m5

Mar 08, 2005 (9:05 pm)

Replying to: michael_mattox (Mar 08, 2005 8:42 pm)
This is what we do know about safety:
 
- Lexus doesn't innovate; Lexus is slow to adopt; Lexus has fewer features.
 
- Mercedes innovates more than even Volvo; Mercedes is first to incorporate new features; Mercedes has more features than Lexus.
 
So, given what we know about both Mercedes and Lexus, who has the obvious advantage? If you say Lexus, you're just being ignorant. Just accept the truth...
 
The safety features in a Lexus are perfected by the Lexus engineers to be as close to perfect as possible before they go into the car
 
How are they perfected by Lexus engineers? MB is one of the few that actually releases and perfects features, Lexus isn't one of them. In fact, Lexus hasn't perfected or innovated ANYTHING in the realm of safety. If you have evidence to prove otherwise, please let me know.
 
...No rushing junk into the market so they can claim #1
 
Again you resort to belittle and bash MB in order to defend your beloved Lexus. Mercedes isn't rushing any "junk" to market so that they can claim number one. I think it would be safe to say a majority of the safety features that your Lexus does have (never mind the ones that it lacks) came from the good graces of Mercedes R&D. All Lexus does is leach off of the accomplishments of others... if it thinks it might lose sales that is.

#8391 of 24723 Re: Side Airbags [michael_mattox] by tiag_m5

Mar 08, 2005 (9:09 pm)

Replying to: michael_mattox (Mar 08, 2005 8:42 pm)
This is what we do know about safety:
 
- Lexus doesn't innovate; Lexus is slow to adopt; Lexus has fewer features.
 
- Mercedes innovates more than even Volvo; Mercedes is first to incorporate new features; Mercedes has more features than Lexus.
 
So, given what we know about both Mercedes and Lexus, who has the obvious advantage? If you say Lexus, you're just being ignorant. Just accept the truth...
 
The safety features in a Lexus are perfected by the Lexus engineers to be as close to perfect as possible before they go into the car
 
How are they perfected by Lexus engineers? MB is one of the few that actually releases and perfects features, Lexus isn't one of them. In fact, Lexus hasn't perfected or innovated ANYTHING in the realm of safety. If you have evidence to prove otherwise, please let me know.
 
...No rushing junk into the market so they can claim #1
 
Again you resort to belittle and bash MB in order to defend your beloved Lexus. Mercedes isn't rushing any "junk" to market so that they can claim number one. I think it would be safe to say a majority of the safety features that your Lexus does have (never mind the ones that it lacks) came from the good graces of Mercedes R&D. All Lexus does is leach off of the accomplishments of others... if it thinks it might lose sales that is.
 
When The Stats are viewed...When fatalities are counted, when injuries are looked into...It is the Lexus that is right at the top..
 
BUZZZ. Wrong again. There are no fatality stats to be counted so you're just talking out of your ass here. As I have already pointed out, the IIHS injury stats are skewed and do not account for a wide array of influential factors and demographics. But hey, as long as we're talking about injury loss data, I would like to point out that the RX, GS and IS score worse than comparable MB and BMW models.
 
THAT IS WHY BILL GATES BOUGHT A LEXUS..SO HIS KIDS WOULD BE SAFE EVEN THOUGH DADDY MIGHT DRIVE TOO FAST.
 
Really? Did Bill tell you this himself? You guys must be pretty good friends. No actually, I would guess he just wanted a no hassle reliable car. If he wants the safest car for his kids there is no reason to trust corner cutting Lexus.

#8392 of 24723 Re: Wow, a Lexus love fest from German fans [michael_mattox] by tiag_m5

Mar 08, 2005 (9:12 pm)

Replying to: michael_mattox (Mar 08, 2005 8:30 pm)
You know Gates just dotes on his kids...you can bet he did the research and the LS was the safest car he could find. He wouldn't want his kids in the Second safest.
 
Yep, it's so safe that it has fewer safety features than Mercedes. Lexus is so safe that they only adopt safety features years after everyone else has done so. In fact, Lexus is such a safety conscious brand that they haven't introduced or reserached any safety features and instead perform their signature "wait and leach" tactic. Luckily the LS430 has rear side airbags to protect his precious children in a wreck... oh wait, no it doesn't.
 
Yep, by the looks of it Lexus is just a regular Volvo when it comes to safety.
 
:sarcasm:

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