Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Mar 05, 2005 (1:08 pm)
Contrary to your negative views of the 2006 GS, a greater majority of those who have actually seen this car in person liked it much better than the pics showed."
But did you? What does the majority have to do with anything? Lexus buyers will adore anything Lexus makes regardless of how it looks, the LS, ES, RX prove that. You seem to imply that I haven't seen the car in person. I saw it over a year ago and again this year and now on the road, and its and ugly whale of a car, imo.
"The new GS is better than any of the Bangled BMWs out there today. No contest there. MBs and Audis are always pretty sharp, style-wise, I give you that. But I have repeatedly told you that MB styling only got better in the 90s. The older MBs are stodgy, slab-sided, but highly functional, rock-solid build and of excellent overall quality. Its only in the '90s MB began the styling direction with their bug-eyed E-series. So, let's give Lexus its due props... The company is only 15 years in the Luxury car/truck business, unlike BMW and MB's long heritage of producing crappy-looking, but highly efficient automobiles until much recently.
All highly IYO because while I won't pretend that MBs always looked as good as they do now, but they were far from crappy looking. Going by how 80s Toyotas used to look and that first ES250 Lexus' cars would have looked even worse than those slab-sided Benzes. I find nothing wrong with the looks of the 1981-1991 S-Class or the SEC coupe from the same years, timeless to me. The 1986-1995 E-Class also had a timeless Mercedes look, especially the 300CE/E320 Coupe from those years (1988-1995). Hardly "crappy" looking.
Toyota on the other hand has long been a the very bottom on the styling scale. Stylewise Lexus hasn't earned any "props" with me since the original SC300/400 and until I see this new IS in person...
Yes I'm one of the few that like the new 5-Series, but I still can't stand the 7-Series. My problem with the 5-Series isn't styling so I don't think the GS looks better in that regard.
Styling it seem as everyhing else reverts back to Lexus and Toyotas profits and how they're going to take over the world. Time for a new line as that one is past tired. All the money in the world doesn't always mean the best products, maybe from a reliability standpoint, but not even Toyota/Lexus has hit all homeruns with every product.
Mar 05, 2005 (1:20 pm)
I've researched the last gen XJ (98-03) alot and have noted a steep improvement in reliability. I'm pretty sure Jag is on the way up in this regard, but their ratings drop with every introduction of the new model. The new XJ is a disappointment. It looks too much like the X-Type, and doesn't have that classic Jaguar look to it. It's almost like the prom queen who's put on a few too many pounds. (apologies to any women on this board..) I'm strongly considering buying a 03 XJ8 once I get back to the US. I've seen so many in London and they look outstanding.
I'd the first to agree with you on the styling argument. The only LS I like is the 92 that I still have. The 2005 is a significant improvement on the '02 that I had..Its' profile is not as sleek as I like though..It was part of the reason I considered the S Class before I got my new car.
The recent Lexus styling is even blander..I maintain that the original designs were the best ones. The GS looks "okay" and the IS does look interesting. RX, LS, SC are all just okay. The ES just looks really weird. I think the rear is elegant but the front look is like a smiling bug.
It's why I'm hot for the XJ8..It may have some issues, but it's still the looker of the lot. (At least the old one) I feel that manufacturers are compromising looks for aerodynamics. I haven't seen a real stunner from anyone in recent time. I don't think all of the 80's MB's were slab sided. I'd still buy a mid 80's SL in a second if they still made it. IMHO the 80's Benzes were quite elegant and looked solid.
#8258 of 24723 Merc1
Mar 05, 2005 (2:22 pm)
Let's see MBs styling trend from the '70s to date. Judge for yourself.....
1989 SL560 Coupe
1990 MB styling:
1993 MB 600SEC
1996 MB E320
2000-and up MB styling
Mar 05, 2005 (2:24 pm)
Um, I think merc1's feelings about MB's styling have been well-established.
It is time for some of you folks to agree to disagree and move on.
#8260 of 24723 Re: [pat]
Mar 05, 2005 (2:29 pm)
Uhm, Pat... Has that "link" issue being fixed now ? I kinda think so, but want you to confirm. Remember my deal ?
#8261 of 24723 Re: [oac]
Mar 05, 2005 (2:33 pm)
To my knowledge, it has not - and that has nothing to do with the fact that it is time to agree to disagree on these issues which some of you keep beating into the ground. It is beyond obvious whose minds are not going to be changed no matter what is said by whomever else.
We are in an area where the comments are too repetitive and too personal and not doing anything but driving other members off. That's not what we're about here.
Let's move on.
#8262 of 24723 Re: [oac]
Mar 05, 2005 (4:54 pm)
Hmm, maybe the link problem has been fixed?? I've seen one link that I would have thought might be broken and it's not - but it wasn't long enough to make me sure. Guess time will tell.
#8263 of 24723 Re: Oac [merc1]
Mar 05, 2005 (5:28 pm)
I think there is a reason for why Japanese cars look bland to you. The reason is many new cars are Japanese brands. For example, everytime i stop at traffic lights i will see either corollas or civics. For some occassion, i even saw 3 or 4 civics at once. Therefore, even the car with greatest style in the world will look bland after millions driving in one. After i got my LS i start to appreciate how Japanese put perfection and innovative ideas with carefully managed details. Everything you touch is polished and soft. The rear seats are filled with choices. (i loved the rear seat accessible cool box)My past S430 is a strip down car compare to that but it cost me at least 10k more.(not to mention the repair cost)
Mar 05, 2005 (8:41 pm)
each and every photo is of a classic and unforgettable automobile. MB's styling is
head and shoulders above Lexus. it is original
and timeless. how many picture posters will be on college dorm room walls, teenagers bedrooms, or any place of automotive enthusiasm that contain a Lexus in them?.....none. Lexus has yet to put together a design that isn't forgettable the moment it goes out of production...in many cases even sooner.
when Lexus has any type of concept vehicle that the Lexus faithful become excited about the first thing Lexus does is.....scrap it. i don't know why but they then go back to the car they are replacing and make subtle changes to it and then call it new. just look at the GS. maybe it's not a bad idea to scrap their concepts because most of them are so outrageously styled and odd that i doubt they could give them away if they went into production.
people can harp all day long about CR's, JDpowers....blaw blaw blaw. MB can at least
correct any quality issues they may have. becoming creative and having original ideas is much much harder to do if not impossible.
#8265 of 24723 Re: michael_mattox [merc1]
Mar 05, 2005 (8:42 pm)
The only big deal is that you would make such a comment and then not be able to back it up...
On to the next issue