Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#8210 of 24726 2005 CR Reliability Rankings are out
Mar 03, 2005 (8:50 pm)
Consumer Reports had the largest response to its latest annual auto reliability survey ever, allowing the nonprofit organization to compile reliability portraits on more than 810,000 vehicles, up from 675,000 vehicles in 2003 and 480,000 in 2002. This is the second year in a row that Consumer Reports surveyed subscribers to both its magazine and its web site, www.ConsumerReports.org, a total of more than 5 million consumers throughout the U.S. The survey was conducted in the spring of 2004 and covered 1997 to 2004 models.
And now... drum roll....
2005 New-Car Reliability:
#8211 of 24726 Re: More of the same... [flyfisher1]
Mar 03, 2005 (9:22 pm)
A-8 owners who are tired of the dull ride will step up to the LS for performance.
#8212 of 24726 Re: More of the same... [flyfisher1]
Mar 03, 2005 (9:24 pm)
Simple answer...It is a better and LESS EXPENSIVE car...
#8213 of 24726 Re: Merc1's worst case scenario [oac]
Mar 03, 2005 (9:28 pm)
I said it before and I'll say it again - Gotta love you OAC. You know how to nail it.
I may take that GS out for a spin tomorrow. I've heard great things about it.
#8214 of 24726 Re: Oac [ljflx]
Mar 03, 2005 (9:30 pm)
"I'll say it for the last time because you just don't get it. The statement was that the negative headlines - financial, quality, reliability etc etc are inescapable to any business savy person and many lux car buyers are exactly that. When those people read about the quality problems and then the financial problems that are following it they just file it away in their head.
And saying it over and over doesn't make is so for everyone either. You're trying to tie in negative press about reliability to financial status and they aren't the same thing. People do care about the former, but are basically clueless about the latter. Every luxury car buyer isn't on the same page as you are. I see no evidence of buyers caring one hoot about a company's financial status. Reliability of the car or brand they're buying of course they care, but what the company made last quarter, heck no. This is your opinion and it isn't based on anything but your personal view and/or circle of Lexus owning friends. There is no evidence to support any of this. You say that there won't be any show of this on the buyers boards then where does it show up then, besides in your mind?
Now tell me what percentage of buyers care about earnings of car company or what their CEO has done in the last 6 months? Unless you have something concrete on this thinking this is all highly IYO.
Mar 03, 2005 (9:50 pm)
There is an article in the April issue of Automobile that you're just going to love. It is titled "Losing the Luster" and it shows a cracked MB star. It basically says what you've been saying all along and what I've been saying too. While quality is down, perception to the general public is still sky-high for Mercedes, especially in Germany which is where most of this article concentrates. This is why I've said since 2001 when you first started with your "fall from the top" theory about Mercedes, that it isn't going to happen as quick as you said it would and it hasn't, at least not yet. Am I saying it couldn't happen? Of course not. Will it happen? Yep, if they don't correct their issues before perception catches up with reality. The article also goes on about how good the Germans are at marketing their cars and that obviously reliability isn't everything because if it were "the world would drive Toyotas", another point I made in the beginning. I have never said that their reliability problems are not important or that they didn't have one, I take issue with the doom and gloom cheering that is posted here because it is silly. Like come March 5th the end will be here.
#8216 of 24726 tiag_m5
Mar 03, 2005 (10:04 pm)
Since we've resorted to digging up owners to add hype to the board. There is a BMW owner on the LS board who took the LS430 out for a spin and brought it back in 10 mins because it was too lame in the driving department. Very interesting. Now they're telling him to try the "Euro" model like it will come anywhere near driving like a BMW. Wishful thinking at best.
#8217 of 24726 Buy into reliability or Brand Name?
Mar 03, 2005 (10:15 pm)
Back into 80s and 90s, people just wanted to get a ride in a MB because it was the class leader for quality ride, luxury, status, and reliability. For a generation, my family and i loved the brand for years and kept getting another 1. Wait till i got my S430 (2002), i finally realized the importance for the quality control and reliability. First the oil gauage were crying for hungry all the time. have it in dealer for 4 times, it just did not want to be fixed. After that, i had to count miles in order to make sure i will not sit in the city jungle without gas. Even worse, warning lights were flashing all the time. When i got to the dealer, the reply was just disappointing: they didnt bother to check to c if there were some problems in the car. They just put u in a waiting list (longer than 3 months) and let u drove around with warning lights on. The electronic qualities are also nightmares and some buttons feel losely fitted 2. The only thing i am happy about is the high resell value of the car?! I dunno who is going to buy my car, with over $4000+ fixing bill to pay within the first 3 years, but I know he should be blind and stupid.
Mar 04, 2005 (4:38 am)
Read post 6988 in the LS forum. It's from a 7 series convert. If you looked at my posts in the same forum, I openly said the dynamics of the LS will be lacking to a 5 Series owner. Most magazines deem the LS has "unexciting, yet competent." It's not going to drive like a barge, but not like a sports car either.
Our responses are linked to the base model. I would never buy a base LS. Most of the touted features are missing on the car. You maybe able to get "closer" to the BMW experience by getting the Euro or Air Suspension and 18" tires..My last LS was an Euro Suspension model, it definitely rode stiffer. (It's part of the reason I got rid of it..Too harsh for me)
Also what's the point of a Lexus without Mark Levinson and the Navigation System? It's like you say, it's their chief marketing tool. Even some of the more interesting things are missing like Backup Camera, Bluetooth, and Voice activated controls. (Note these are all gimmicks, but they are interesting ones). We all just wanted our BMW friend to get the same experience we all did. As I said in the previous post, every person has their different tastes. I can respect that..
In the Lexus LS forum, I've posted a few pictures of all the LS cars I've owned over the years. Which do you all think is the best? I still think the '92 was the best, but my wife thinks the '05 is better.
Jaguar on the bottom again?! I thought they were improving!! Argh, I was seriously thinking about buying one too..
#8219 of 24726 Re: tiag_m5 [merc1]
Mar 04, 2005 (4:45 am)
Yes but that BMW owner was impressed with the GS 430 which really came close to a BMW experience. Only this BMW owner wasn't born yesterday and he will have nothing to do with a 16% spread between invoice and MSRP, the latter probably being the selling price for the next few months.($8000 price differential).