Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Feb 21, 2005 (11:31 pm)
"So he admits MB has lost its throne? That is very interesting because it may have been an accidental slip of what the real mindset in the company is given everything else he said was a lot of BS trying to cover such a thought up.
What he was talking about is in quality and sales over BMW, which outsold Mercedes for a few months in 2004. He isn't talking about your positioning theory. Now he had to catch himself because he made a mistake? Lexus' chairman shoots his mouth off about the GS and even the faithful aren't wowed by the car. Did he slip too? Hype at its best. One wrong word and a car company is done.
Why post the review if its such a joke?
#7879 of 24723 Re: Ljflx [merc1]
Feb 21, 2005 (11:38 pm)
By denials I refer to statements such as these:
- "The quality of all cars that leave our plants today is better than ever"
Really ? Then why is the question still being asked ?
- "Without the weak dollar and the costs at Smart in 2004 the result of the Mercedes Car Group would have been markedly better in 2004"
And no other global auto manufacturer was affected by the weak dollar, right ?
- "No, a profit maximization program. Because we're not only looking at costs, but also at revenues. Eckhard Cordes has the right people and knows which levers to pull. You'll see tangible progress at Mercedes-Benz cars in the next twelve months"
Talking of spin, eh ???
- "And electronics cannot simply be bought and integrated into a car."
It's not our fault....
I could find more of this kinda *denials* and *excuses* if you insist....
#7880 of 24723 Pure Hype On Your Part Oac!
Feb 21, 2005 (11:43 pm)
So the currency situation has no affect on anything?
"And electronics cannot simply be bought and integrated into a car."
is a denial or an excuse? Sounds like to that is what they were doing and they realize it doesn't work.
Take a hard look at costs doesn't sound like a spin or excuse to me either, sounds like they're at the very least trying to do something about it.
The only part I find suspect is about the quality of the cars leaving the plant being the best ever, that remains to be seen just yet.
Just admit that you find the whole interview to be a joke or excuse, no need to pick it apart line by line that is tired.
Spin: Saying a SL or S600 isn't a luxury car to make a illogical point about sales.
#7881 of 24723 Re: Pure Hype On Your Part Oac! [merc1]
Feb 21, 2005 (11:53 pm)
C'mon Merc1, you gotta learn to let go.... The SL or S600 are true luxury cars.
And I didn't post that Schrempp interview for fun or to make a joke about it. But really to (a) change the topic which was going no-where, and (b) hear from the CEO of Mercedes-Benz on the state of affairs at MB. Whatever else comments we all make are our own opinions, right ? Like you, I am entitled to mine. You don't have to agree with it.
Feb 21, 2005 (11:59 pm)
Its hard to take your opinion seriously (sometimes) when you make statements like that about cars costing over 100K not being luxury cars..makes we wonder if you really believed that. Secondly if were to post an interview from a Lexus exec talking about how they keep promising to add excitement and some style to brand I'd be accused of bashing in a min if I pointed to the new GS and said something like thats the best they can do. You couldn't have thought posting an interview about MB and then taking it apart by calling it excuses and denial would change the direction that this thread has been going over the last week or so...come on now who you kidding? Thats all this thing has been about, and you can't say I started it, there are newbies here....lol!
#7883 of 24723 Re: Oac [merc1]
Feb 22, 2005 (12:08 am)
My opinions of the GS is well known, so allow me to do the Lexus bashing for you. Lexus missed the mark on this car, imo. I have moaned and complained for weeks about the 3L motor on the '06 GS, rather than the 3.5L released in Japan. Coupled with no SPORT package, the GS300 may be a liability (imo) until MY2007 when it gets the upgraded 3.5L motor. My opinions on MB are also well known - no secret there. If Lexus exec goofed, pls feel free to post and we'll debate it as well. Did you not post about Lexus' recall in China recently ? Was that bashing or fact ? I think it is fact, not bashing.
#7884 of 24723 Re: will people pay 100K for a Lexus? [denaliinpa]
Feb 22, 2005 (12:10 am)
I think people will pay 100K for a Lexus sedan in limited numbers, but 125K for that sports car concept I think they can forget about it, unless they change the styling quite a bit. The proportions are right, but the details are terrible. The Acura NSX comes to mind as how the market will react to a super expensive Japanese sports car, then again I think Lexus has more sense than to let the car go unchanged for 15 years!
Feb 22, 2005 (12:12 am)
"If Lexus exec goofed, pls feel free to post and we'll debate it as well. Did you not post about Lexus' recall in China recently ? Was that bashing or simply facts ? I think it is fact, not bashing.
Ok I'll keep that in mind, though it isn't that serious to me. Interviews with car execs really don't do anything for me unless they say something really off the charts. I don't think anyone wants to read anymore about Lexus and Mercedes or Audi at this point. So I'll pass on the search engine for Lexus exec interviews.
#7886 of 24723 Re: Ljflx [merc1]
Feb 22, 2005 (6:47 am)
You always exaggerate what I say about MB. Everything I said has come true so far and I said these things 2-4 years ago. Reliability and quality would slip and it would be embarassing to them, sales will fall off and profits would drop to the point that they may go in the red. Well officially the first two occurred and are continuing and the latter is a miss by all of $20mln at the operating income line. Unofficially - you can bet your life they are in the red at the net income line and that the operating income is a propped up number. Trust me - this is my area of expertise at a very high level and I could write a college textbook chapter on teaching an auditor what to look for.
Now the currency problem - it effected every importer of every good to the US. MB had 70% profit coverage for the dollar in 2004. That is reflected in their figures. The other 30% is not but overall this is by and large an immaterial amount. That's why it's spin on his part. The results would have been unacceptable no matter what is a non-spin statement.
Gloom and doom - never said they would go bankrupt or any other crazy statement like that. Said they would slip precipitously and it would show up financially and it has. Said the quality would continue to decline and it has. I also said they'd eventually correct things but never return to their glory days of pre-1990. Their days of grand master supreme by a wide margin are over. Their days of being a top auto maker and among the finest in the world have a long run still in front of them.
CEO spin - It's part of the job qualifications and all of them do it very well.
Feb 22, 2005 (7:05 am)
Well the quality and reliability part really isn't anythin new and sales haven't dropped either. They were off a few percent last year compared to 2003 worldwide. The exageration is just about every post about MB on this board. Like I said before they're still selling cars are a premium and will continue to do so. Their pre-1990 days are gone and so are BMWs and anyone else in the luxury car market. Nothing that wasn't easily predicted has happened.