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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: michael_mattox (Feb 19, 2005 10:27 am) the two cars/ engines have totally different characters. LS: comfortable and refined A8: sporty and dynamic Compare it to the M5/M6 engine: V10, 5liters, 507 HP  7750rpm, 383 ft-lbs6100rpm The A8 short and long wheelbase are supposed to be the same from 0-60 (6.3s), based on the audiusa website. Either that is a little too optimistic for the long wheelbase or too slow for the short wheelbase. Alright, after reviewing the German Audi website, I found out that the A8 SWB goes from 1-100kph in 6.3s and the LWB takes 6.4s. Because 0-100kph equals 0-62mph, in order to be fair, you have to take off 0.1 or 0.2 seconds off to get the 'real' 0-60 time. Also, don't forget that the A8 is AWD which will slow it down in pure acceleration compared to the LS. However AWD gives you better traction at the limit. What does that mean? If you ask me? NOTHING. How many luxury car owners in here take their car regularly on the track? How many have driven their LS or whatever on a track? There is nothing to prove it, my opinion is that the A8 will be faster driven at the limit. And I don't mean pure acceleration. Speed in curves is more important on a track. Really people, the way most people drive these cars, they only get the cars to 60-70% of their potential. It's more about knowing that you could if you wanted.
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Replying to: sv7887 (Feb 19, 2005 10:46 am) The uniframe design on the other hand is more like a skeleton. Conceptually it should be stiffer. What does this mean in an accident? Well it depends, the key here is that in an accident you have to bend as much metal as possible to take out the energy of the crash without hurting the people that are inside. Weight is also another consideration because the heavier car will be less damaged in an accident. Safety is a very hard thing to do right because it's not JUST that they try to make to frame as hard as they can. You want to absorb most of the energy in the front where the engine is (in a frontal crash). Conclusion: safety depends more on how good of a job the engineers have done rather than how stiff the frame is. I personally don't believe that there are cosiderable differences between any serious lux car. Don't forget, the stiffer the frame the sportier, therefore I assume that Lexus would be more on the soft side since they are more on comfort than sport. |
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Replying to: rl81 (Feb 19, 2005 2:21 pm) when you look at the numbers...The LS is both comfortable and refined and Sporty and Dynamic... How else do you explain both the faster 0-60 time and the slightly stronger gear ratio?? in the LS..As far as faster on the Road...Well you made a GUESS...But we don't have to guess about which is actually faster.... PS. Because of the Audi's greater Turning Radius and great weight I would GUESS it is not faster on the Road either. BUT, that is just MY guess. Do Dynamic Sporty Cars generally have 4wd, how about Race cars? just curious...I do believe the Hot little Subury does have AWD ...Maybe Audi is in that catagory..Just isn't as fast. |
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I tried to find some racetrack times for both of them but, like I said it's not like people race those things. We're just left with guesses. All new Subarus are AWD... You probably refered to the WRX, which is the street legal version of the worldcup rallye car. The WRX has about 300 hp and is very light. Sure it's fast. Same with the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo, a Euro version of the Ford Focus... Other race/sport cars with AWD: 1. Porsche 911 Turbo 2. Lamborgini Murcielago 3. Lamborgini Gallardo (built by Audi) 4. Audi Le Mans (the new super sport check it out at the Future Vehicles seciton) 5. Nissan Skyline (but this is not a 'real' super sport) 6. we might also add the one and only Audi Coupe Quattro ...I can't think of any more, right now... Back in the early 80's Audi racecars dominated in rallye and touring cars...they were the first ones to do that. My point is that Audi has extensive race experience. I don't want to say that Toyota doesn't have any race, but not as much as Audi...
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Lexus? NO Acura? NO Infinity? NO See the answer here: http://www.carpages.co.uk/audi/audi-a6-18-02-05.asp?switched=on&e- cho=154506977 |
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Hi rl81, You make a good point about Audi. But is AWD really needed on a Luxo-Cruiser that is likely going back and forth to the office? I'd definitely see the benefit on the S8 though. Like you said, it's not like anyone is racing these cars. I looked at your link and found something interesting: "They rated the 36 candidates based both on objective criteria, such as product characteristics, and on their emotional charisma: the "wow" factor is clearly just as important an evaluation criteria as safety & environment or value for money." I think this perfectly illustrates the difference between Lexus and German marque owners and maybe even US and European buyers..We discount the "wow" factor in favor of the objectives. This is not meant to diminish the Audi in anyway. I feel each brand has its' own personality cult. If you were to take an unscientific survey on this board you'd come to the same conclusion. Perhaps this is why Europe has always been hesitant towards Japanese cars. I think it's really the cultural difference. SV |
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I would like to put this car up for discussion: 2005 Maserati Quattroporte http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/maserati/quattroporte/100505998/p- hotogallery.html?pg_type=Sedan&imgsrc=%2Fpictures%2FVEHICLE%2F200- - 5%2FMaserati%2F100505998%2F20023048-T.jpg Would this be a candidate for a true luxury sedan? Why or why not? |
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sv: I think you brought up the achilles heel of this discussion. Why do we need a luxury car? Can't people just buy a Camry, Accord, etc. and just drive around with that? Is a V8/V12 etc. really necessary? Aren't people just victims of 'peer pressure', slick marketing, and tricky sales people? This is not to offend anyone, rather to take this with some humor...
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Replying to: rl81 (Feb 19, 2005 8:06 pm) |
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Hi All, I think there are a few types of buyers out there: 1) The real car nuts..They love everything related to their Marque.. Their cars strike an emotional chord in them. They love the look and feel of their car as well as the heritage of the brand. 2) Those who base their purchases on what JDP, CR, and other objective surveys say.."Feel" and looks are not as important to these buyers. You could say they simply want a nice car that will last. I'd probably fit into this group. 3) The "Me Too's" who simply want the snob appeal that comes with owning their cars. It's probably likely that they know nothing about the marque or car at all. I think this is what happened to the 3 Series. (which is sad because it's one of best cars out there) I can't tell you how many people I've seen do just that. What do you all think? SV |
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