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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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I keep reading all these stories about How bad Mercedes-Benz is doing and yet they only changed one guy at the top. This Cordes guy. He seems pretty sharp and apparently has done a good job before. Yet in the US, it seems they have weak management who have devasted the product and taken away the scheduled maintenance and are losing money and it seems really don't understand the US market. Why not make a change here also? When Chrysler neeeded help they brought in Zietche and Eberhardt who both knew the US Market, at Mercedes in the US, they took a company doing very well going in the right direction and brought in what has turned out to be sub-par manangement, who had never been in the US before and they have now managed to run in it into the ground and our stock will take the hit. Maybe Kirkorian should run it. |
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Replying to: michael_mattox (Feb 17, 2005 8:27 pm) "Lexus LS430 290 HP...0-60... 5.9 SEC...and it gets much better gas milage." Why don't you tell the whole truth? Where does the A8 reach its peak HP? at 6500rpm! Where does the LS reach its peak HP? at 5600rpm! Torque? about the same: 317 A8 vs. 320 LS Is (18/25 LS vs. 18/24 A8) that so much better??? The Audi weighs about 300 lb. more (8%) Now, the discussion between alu space frame and conventional steel is very interesting. I have seen the difference between the two in the production. I can tell you that much: the alloy spaceframe is considerably harder to manufacture. It takes a lot more people to put together a spaceframe than a convantional frame, which is manufactured mostly by robots. Audi has a considerable experience in alu frames, since they are the first who did that in large scale production, as far as I know. The new Rolls-Royce is an aluminum space frame, for example. |
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Replying to: rl81 (Feb 19, 2005 9:33 am) I am not a real knowledge Auto guy...Don't know how to fix them...or build them..Only know how to buy them...Question.. If the Lexus has Almost 16% Less HP...and slightly more toque..AND IS MUCH FASTER 0-60 What is the relavance of the LS reaching Peak HP at a lower RPM...ISN'T THAT A GOOD THING.
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Hi All, Does a welded body have any disadvantage over the uniframe design a la Mercedes? If you were going to get into an accident, is there anything conclusive on the merits of either design? SV
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hey guys, when it comes to which automobile is quicker the A8 or the LS430....the LS is quicker. i have yet to see a 0-60 time for the short wheel base version of the A8. the 6.3 is usually what i see quoted for the long wheelbase. keep in mind that the A8 in either long or short wheelbase is AWD and I'm sure that will affect the quickness of the vehicle. as for which automobile is safer i am sure they are both equally safe in accidents regardless of the steel vs aluminum nonsense that has been filling this thread. having said that Audi should be commended for manufacturing a unique vehicle.
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Replying to: michael_mattox (Feb 19, 2005 10:27 am) the two cars/ engines have totally different characters. LS: comfortable and refined A8: sporty and dynamic Compare it to the M5/M6 engine: V10, 5liters, 507 HP  7750rpm, 383 ft-lbs6100rpm The A8 short and long wheelbase are supposed to be the same from 0-60 (6.3s), based on the audiusa website. Either that is a little too optimistic for the long wheelbase or too slow for the short wheelbase. Alright, after reviewing the German Audi website, I found out that the A8 SWB goes from 1-100kph in 6.3s and the LWB takes 6.4s. Because 0-100kph equals 0-62mph, in order to be fair, you have to take off 0.1 or 0.2 seconds off to get the 'real' 0-60 time. Also, don't forget that the A8 is AWD which will slow it down in pure acceleration compared to the LS. However AWD gives you better traction at the limit. What does that mean? If you ask me? NOTHING. How many luxury car owners in here take their car regularly on the track? How many have driven their LS or whatever on a track? There is nothing to prove it, my opinion is that the A8 will be faster driven at the limit. And I don't mean pure acceleration. Speed in curves is more important on a track. Really people, the way most people drive these cars, they only get the cars to 60-70% of their potential. It's more about knowing that you could if you wanted.
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Replying to: sv7887 (Feb 19, 2005 10:46 am) The uniframe design on the other hand is more like a skeleton. Conceptually it should be stiffer. What does this mean in an accident? Well it depends, the key here is that in an accident you have to bend as much metal as possible to take out the energy of the crash without hurting the people that are inside. Weight is also another consideration because the heavier car will be less damaged in an accident. Safety is a very hard thing to do right because it's not JUST that they try to make to frame as hard as they can. You want to absorb most of the energy in the front where the engine is (in a frontal crash). Conclusion: safety depends more on how good of a job the engineers have done rather than how stiff the frame is. I personally don't believe that there are cosiderable differences between any serious lux car. Don't forget, the stiffer the frame the sportier, therefore I assume that Lexus would be more on the soft side since they are more on comfort than sport. |
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Replying to: rl81 (Feb 19, 2005 2:21 pm) when you look at the numbers...The LS is both comfortable and refined and Sporty and Dynamic... How else do you explain both the faster 0-60 time and the slightly stronger gear ratio?? in the LS..As far as faster on the Road...Well you made a GUESS...But we don't have to guess about which is actually faster.... PS. Because of the Audi's greater Turning Radius and great weight I would GUESS it is not faster on the Road either. BUT, that is just MY guess. Do Dynamic Sporty Cars generally have 4wd, how about Race cars? just curious...I do believe the Hot little Subury does have AWD ...Maybe Audi is in that catagory..Just isn't as fast. |
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I tried to find some racetrack times for both of them but, like I said it's not like people race those things. We're just left with guesses. All new Subarus are AWD... You probably refered to the WRX, which is the street legal version of the worldcup rallye car. The WRX has about 300 hp and is very light. Sure it's fast. Same with the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo, a Euro version of the Ford Focus... Other race/sport cars with AWD: 1. Porsche 911 Turbo 2. Lamborgini Murcielago 3. Lamborgini Gallardo (built by Audi) 4. Audi Le Mans (the new super sport check it out at the Future Vehicles seciton) 5. Nissan Skyline (but this is not a 'real' super sport) 6. we might also add the one and only Audi Coupe Quattro ...I can't think of any more, right now... Back in the early 80's Audi racecars dominated in rallye and touring cars...they were the first ones to do that. My point is that Audi has extensive race experience. I don't want to say that Toyota doesn't have any race, but not as much as Audi...
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Lexus? NO Acura? NO Infinity? NO See the answer here: http://www.carpages.co.uk/audi/audi-a6-18-02-05.asp?switched=on&e- cho=154506977 |
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