Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#7750 of 24726 Re: brightness04 [rl81]
Feb 18, 2005 (11:44 am)
Having spent spring of 2004 working and doing research in France and Spain, I can tell you that the EU is more nationalistic than the US with respect to government protections of domestic industry. It's starting to relax now but protection of local industry has been very strong all through the 80s and 90s and to a lesser extent today. For all of Detroit's anti-japanese bluster, the US has been more open to Japanese car competition than any other Western nation.
As for MB's reputation in Europe, it's rapidly going downhill even without Lexus and JD Power to pound on them.
See for example:
Visitors travelling by taxi to the DaimlerChrysler headquarters in Stuttgart used to have one choice of vehicle: Mercedes. The same was true throughout Germany. But on visits in the recent wintry months, the taxi rank has usually been headed by a Volkswagen, Opel or - worst of all - a Mazda.
Jürgen Geier, a Stuttgart taxi driver who used to drive a Mercedes before switching to Audi, explains: "Mercedes has really gone downhill in the last few years.
Other choice quotes include:
For Germany's taxi drivers, this comes as no surprise. "Opels [made by General Motors of the US] are half the price of Mercedes and the quality is now the same," says Anis Ahmad, a Frankfurt taxi driver with an Opel Zafira.
However, secondhand sales of older, more reliable Mercedes models are booming in the German taxi market, says BZP - with the result that 70 per cent of all taxis still bear the famous star logo.
#7751 of 24726 Re: brightness04 [jvcn]
Feb 18, 2005 (11:55 am)
I thought the choicest part was "The German Taxi and Hire Car Association (BZP) says that Mercedes' proportion of new taxi sales has fallen since the turn of the century from 70 per cent to 50 per cent."
#7752 of 24726 Re: oac [brightness04]
Feb 18, 2005 (11:57 am)
We have what, 7-8k Lexus units sold in the US being over $50k, estimated very conservatively, before even counting any GS model at all. MB only sells 12-13k cars in the US a month. There is simply no way more than half of them are over $50k. MB has a lot of models, but precious little unit sales among its high end models
Thanks for this. You make my point better than I could make it myself, and backed up with some conservative estimates. Merc1's post is far more general and non-specific - more variants does not necessarily translate to more sales.
It will appear that Lexus truly is the numero uno luxury car seller than MB or BMW ! Lexus sells more lux cars/trucks than their competition (they are #1 in sales in the US 3 years running), despite the higher macque/cache/brand recognition of MB or BMW over Lexus. What MB has are niche cars (S600/SL/CLS/AMGs) not necessarily luxury cars, since these sell in so low numbers. The mainstream luxury car seller, at least in the US, is Lexus. The numbers bear it out, and numbers don't lie, or do they ?
#7753 of 24726 Re: Purpose of hybrid [designman]
Feb 18, 2005 (12:08 pm)
Hybrids will revolutionalize the auto industry within the next 5 years ! You know that already, right ? Just read an article where someone mentioned that the days of cheap gasoline are long over. Why ? Because of the HUGE demand from China and other fast growing markets due to their phenomenal growths. And Toyota has always been on the forefront of clairvoyance in the auto industry. They started the hybrids almost a decade ago, while the likes of Ford, GM, MB laughed and scoffed at hybrids. We'll see who'll be laughing in 5 years from now !!!
Diesels in the US as an alternative ? Get real !
Feb 18, 2005 (12:54 pm)
Yes, Toyota is methodical, deliberate, pragmatic and patient. By comparison all of the others seem to live for today… instant profits. Toyota is also into researching and developing the other alternate-energy vehicles and will be ready to pounce on hydrogen when it’s ready years down the road. But this will require a monolithic effort among government and many industries. That said, they still gave us Quasimoto. I am going to try to get a test drive tomorrow.
#7755 of 24726 Re: [denaliinpa]
Feb 18, 2005 (1:24 pm)
How 'bout the GMC Denali or Cadillac Escalade ....aka....Chevy Tahoe?
#7756 of 24726 Re: Oac [designman]
Feb 18, 2005 (1:29 pm)
That said, they still gave us Quasimoto. I am going to try to get a test drive tomorrow.
Quasimoto ? Would that not be the "Hunchback of Notre Dame" ? Are you refering to the GS ? (hehehehe... )
I will LOVE to hear/read of your test drive of the GS, if you can get one. So what am I doing wrong that my dealer hasn't called me yet ? I gotta find out and do my own test drive soon.
Feb 18, 2005 (2:17 pm)
ok...i did some research on sales volume.
these are figures for year to date 04 vs 03.
IS 9972 13559
ES 79916 67762
RX 106531 92366
GX 35420 31376
LX 9846 9193
GS 1348 2078
SC 9708 10298
LS 32272 23895
Mercedes 04 03
C/sedan 60107 52382
C/coupe 5584 9779
C/wagon 3560 3821
CLK 10120 9802
CLK/conv. 12346 9428
E 53886 53240
E/wagon 5068 2443
SLK 7360 6023
SL 12885 13318
CL 2683 3377
S 20460 22940
M 25681 30018
G 1491 1980
CLS -- ---
just think....10 different models. 15 total variations...not one re badged Chrysler among the bunch. convertibles, high performance coupes and sedans, all wheel drive versions, short and long wheel base availability,
and even wagons. this is a complete portfolio for the luxury car buyer. like i said earlier...re badging Toyota's to create a so called luxury brand just doesn't cut in my opinion.
#7758 of 24726 Luxury Brands...
Feb 18, 2005 (2:27 pm)
That Criteria would make Ford as much as a Marque as MB...They sell Lincolns at all sorts of prices..Include Jaguar and Volvo and they are a bonafide luxury car maker..
Using your logic Jaguar would not be considered a high end luxury car maker, given both the lack of variety and the fact two of its models (S-Type, X-Type) share platforms with Ford products..(Lincoln LS and Ford Mondeo) How about the XJ6 having a Ford derived V-6 in it? Does that diminish Jaguar in anyway?..
Supermarket like variety isn't the basis for calling an automaker upscale..
#7759 of 24726 Let's move on
Feb 18, 2005 (2:41 pm)
Folks, I really think it is time to move on. We have beaten this particular thread of conversation into the ground.
We're all entitled to define a luxury brand in the way that we believe it should be defined. None of us are going to convince anyone else to change his viewpoint by saying the same things over and over again.
Everyone here has made his opinion very clear - it's time to agree to disagree where that applies.
Let's find something else to talk about now.