High End Luxury Cars

24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

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#7744 of 24700 Up, down, round and round by designman Feb 18, 2005 (10:40 am)
Ah, let them all shake the brand pom poms. My car is better than yours... round in circles... yaddy yadda. Ljflx... I always enjoy your marketing takes. What's your 5-year prognosis for all of the brands in question here?
#7745 of 24700 pom poms by pat HOST Feb 18, 2005 (10:45 am)
Thanks designman, all this "my car/brand is better than yours" is headache-making and certainly not convincing anyone of anything. Let's move on with other conversation.
#7746 of 24700 Re: Purpose of hybrid [designman] by syswei Feb 18, 2005 (10:45 am)
Replying to: designman (Feb 18, 2005 10:19 am) Absolutely, I agree the main point is fuel savings, the emissions reductions are primarily a byproduct of consuming less fuel.
#7747 of 24700 Re: brightness04 [ljflx] by rl81 Feb 18, 2005 (11:19 am)
Replying to: ljflx (Feb 18, 2005 7:39 am) Please take it easy with your generalizations ala: "Europe is a very nationalistic society" From living in both continents, I can tell you that Europe is wayyyyy less nationalistic than the US for example. I think that everyone prefers to buy something that has been made in his own country, right? But the real reason, IMO, why for Lexus it's harder to compete in Europe is that transportation from Japan to Europe is longer than from Japan to the US. Are Lexus built in the US (I don't know that they are)? As for Marketing: what are the German carmakers offering in Europe? A completely customized product. They can do that because they can deliever a car in about a month, if there is no waiting list. They can't do that in the US because Transportation is about a month (or so???). The Japanese have done the only possible thing (I can think of), to offer an (almost) fully equiped vehicle. I give them credit for that. 'Z' Germans believe they can make more profit with their option 'book' (it's too long to be a list). The other factor we shouldn't forget here is that the US is pretty much a primary market for Lexus (if not more important than Japan). For 'Z' Germans it's a secondary market. You can just see that at the limited product lines. Replies to this message: jvcn (Feb 18, 2005 11:44 am) syswei (Feb 18, 2005 11:55 am)
#7748 of 24700 Flex Rear Seat by yerth10 Feb 18, 2005 (11:24 am)
These so-called luxury vehicles like "Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 430, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton" They dont even have a reclining / sliding rear seat which is available in many smaller Crossover Utility Vehicles like Escape, CRV, Equinox, etc. Such seat provides more comfort for the passenger. After all luxury vehicles are meant for maximum comfort. Any comments. Replies to this message: syswei (Feb 18, 2005 11:35 am)
#7749 of 24700 Re: Flex Rear Seat [yerth10] by syswei Feb 18, 2005 (11:35 am)
Replying to: yerth10 (Feb 18, 2005 11:24 am) Available with the LS Ultra, and probably some versions of some of the other sedans you mentionned.
#7750 of 24700 Re: brightness04 [rl81] by jvcn Feb 18, 2005 (11:44 am)
Replying to: rl81 (Feb 18, 2005 11:19 am) Having spent spring of 2004 working and doing research in France and Spain, I can tell you that the EU is more nationalistic than the US with respect to government protections of domestic industry. It's starting to relax now but protection of local industry has been very strong all through the 80s and 90s and to a lesser extent today. For all of Detroit's anti-japanese bluster, the US has been more open to Japanese car competition than any other Western nation. As for MB's reputation in Europe, it's rapidly going downhill even without Lexus and JD Power to pound on them. See for example: http://news.ft.com/cms/s/62b860d0-808a-11d9-bd50-00000e2511c8.htm- l opening: Visitors travelling by taxi to the DaimlerChrysler headquarters in Stuttgart used to have one choice of vehicle: Mercedes. The same was true throughout Germany. But on visits in the recent wintry months, the taxi rank has usually been headed by a Volkswagen, Opel or - worst of all - a Mazda. Jürgen Geier, a Stuttgart taxi driver who used to drive a Mercedes before switching to Audi, explains: "Mercedes has really gone downhill in the last few years. Other choice quotes include: For Germany's taxi drivers, this comes as no surprise. "Opels [made by General Motors of the US] are half the price of Mercedes and the quality is now the same," says Anis Ahmad, a Frankfurt taxi driver with an Opel Zafira. And finally: However, secondhand sales of older, more reliable Mercedes models are booming in the German taxi market, says BZP - with the result that 70 per cent of all taxis still bear the famous star logo. Replies to this message: syswei (Feb 18, 2005 11:55 am)
#7751 of 24700 Re: brightness04 [jvcn] by syswei Feb 18, 2005 (11:55 am)
Replying to: jvcn (Feb 18, 2005 11:44 am) I thought the choicest part was "The German Taxi and Hire Car Association (BZP) says that Mercedes' proportion of new taxi sales has fallen since the turn of the century from 70 per cent to 50 per cent."
#7752 of 24700 Re: oac [brightness04] by oac Feb 18, 2005 (11:57 am)
Replying to: brightness04 (Feb 18, 2005 6:20 am) We have what, 7-8k Lexus units sold in the US being over $50k, estimated very conservatively, before even counting any GS model at all. MB only sells 12-13k cars in the US a month. There is simply no way more than half of them are over $50k. MB has a lot of models, but precious little unit sales among its high end models Brightness: Thanks for this. You make my point better than I could make it myself, and backed up with some conservative estimates. Merc1's post is far more general and non-specific - more variants does not necessarily translate to more sales. It will appear that Lexus truly is the numero uno luxury car seller than MB or BMW ! Lexus sells more lux cars/trucks than their competition (they are #1 in sales in the US 3 years running), despite the higher macque/cache/brand recognition of MB or BMW over Lexus. What MB has are niche cars (S600/SL/CLS/AMGs) not necessarily luxury cars, since these sell in so low numbers. The mainstream luxury car seller, at least in the US, is Lexus. The numbers bear it out, and numbers don't lie, or do they ? Touche. Replies to this message: merc1 (Feb 20, 2005 10:19 pm) oac (Feb 21, 2005 5:33 pm) merc1 (Feb 21, 2005 10:12 pm) and 1 more...
#7753 of 24700 Re: Purpose of hybrid [designman] by oac Feb 18, 2005 (12:08 pm)
Replying to: designman (Feb 18, 2005 10:19 am) Designman: Hybrids will revolutionalize the auto industry within the next 5 years ! You know that already, right ? Just read an article where someone mentioned that the days of cheap gasoline are long over. Why ? Because of the HUGE demand from China and other fast growing markets due to their phenomenal growths. And Toyota has always been on the forefront of clairvoyance in the auto industry. They started the hybrids almost a decade ago, while the likes of Ford, GM, MB laughed and scoffed at hybrids. We'll see who'll be laughing in 5 years from now !!! Diesels in the US as an alternative ? Get real !