High End Luxury Cars

24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

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#7732 of 24700 Re: brightness04 [denaliinpa] by brightness04 Feb 18, 2005 (6:58 am)
Replying to: denaliinpa (Feb 18, 2005 6:10 am) i am amazed at how the Lexus fans would like to ignore how Lexus has been succesful in only one market. does this make it as a luxury brand? Of course it does. Cadillac is a luxury brand, and so is Toyota Crown (a line of cars). Comes to think of it, Maybach and the new Rolls have been successful in no market at all. Yet they are still bona fide high end luxury marquees. Luxury marquees get damaged when they stoop down to make cheap cars like Cadillac did back in the 70's and 80's, which gave rise to MB and BMW in the US to begin with.
#7733 of 24700 Re: brightness04 [denaliinpa] by ljflx Feb 18, 2005 (7:39 am)
Replying to: denaliinpa (Feb 18, 2005 6:10 am) Denaliinpa - when was the last time you were in Europe?? Lexus has a tiny distribution chain in Europe because they haven't built any cars for the market. Their effort is virtually all through their Toyota dealers which just established a broader distribution chain in the last couple of years. You'd have to drug Toyota to get them to set up distribution in Europe the way they have set up the Lexus chain in the US when their is no preconceived strategy like they had for the US in 1989. Europe has been nothing but a jab so far for them but that changes in about 2 years. The scary thing I'd be concerned about if I were a European lux make, fan or one who can't handle Lexus success is that they have taken more serious steps in the UK and sales leaped immediately. You will see plenty of SC430's and LS430's in England. Now Europe is a very nationalistic society. They want their goods built there. They don't care if the company is not European but they want the goods built in Europe. Importing is a last alternative to that society. But if the EU doesn't open it up for Lexus wait to you see how quickly Japan shuts it down for the Europeans. This part isn't about car tastes, it's about regulations that can be changed by municipalities. As I said, I'd look at the fact that Lexus sold 20K cars with virtually no effort and the fact that they are quickly penetrating England with a lot of fear if I were a German lux make. What happened in the US is inevitable in Europe. Selling nearly 300K cars in the US thru 240 dealershios is a real scary efficiency that I'd worry about too. A great product at a lower price point that equals or surpasses the home grown product cannot be denied. That is business 101. Replies to this message: rl81 (Feb 18, 2005 11:19 am) jvcn (Feb 18, 2005 11:44 am) syswei (Feb 18, 2005 11:55 am)
#7734 of 24700 Re: MB diesels [syswei] by rl81 Feb 18, 2005 (8:38 am)
Replying to: syswei (Feb 18, 2005 6:42 am) I know that in Europe, the newest Diesel have managed to fulfill Euro4 pollution levels (the strictest/ newest one). Also, most new Diesels have a particle-filter that reduces the emission even more. I read in another board here that even California will change its laws to allow the new Diesels. I personally believe that the pollution issue is not that big of a problem any more, just the legislation... BTW, MB plans to bring out a hybrid too...with a Diesel engine. Replies to this message: syswei (Feb 18, 2005 9:23 am) michael_mattox (Feb 18, 2005 9:41 am)
#7735 of 24700 Re: MB diesels [rl81] by syswei Feb 18, 2005 (9:23 am)
Replying to: rl81 (Feb 18, 2005 8:38 am) Yes I realize that the R-class has been shown on the autoshow circuit with a hybrid diesel. As far as I know, MB hasn't dropped any hints as to when such a version might ship, which makes one think that it won't be anytime soon. I do understand that the technology is clean enough. In the U.S. we need cleaner, lower-sulphur diesel fuel to go with the engines. Not clear to me if the fuel price goes up when the sulphur content gets reduced. Replies to this message: michael_mattox (Feb 18, 2005 9:41 am)
#7736 of 24700 Re: Thinking out loud [oac] by michael_mattox Feb 18, 2005 (9:37 am)
Replying to: oac (Feb 17, 2005 10:47 pm) Very well said To the point and lays it out right on the money..At least in my Opinion.
#7737 of 24700 Re: MB diesels [syswei] by michael_mattox Feb 18, 2005 (9:41 am)
Replying to: syswei (Feb 18, 2005 9:23 am) Sweet Crude (low Sulphur) is more expensive ..It is generally what you get from the Arabric countries...as opposed to Alaska Oil which is high Sulphur....Japan uses the High Sulphur oil if I am not mistaken. Our industry is geared for the Sweeter Crude.
#7738 of 24700 Re: brightness04 [merc1] by michael_mattox Feb 18, 2005 (9:51 am)
Replying to: merc1 (Feb 17, 2005 11:48 pm) Merc: Your comment about Aluminum and what Brightness said is totally unfair and incorrect....He has pointed that out to you, yet you continue to come back to the same OLD LINE over and over again..Not Nice, Not accurate and Not very Honest on your part. TO BE CLEAR...He said Aluminum is less save then Steel...not that the A8 is less safe then an LS or any other specific car...Reason being Aluminum is more brittle and because of that doesn't Crumple as well as Steel...it also has a lower burn point then steel. (This is from memory and if brightness thinks I have misquoted him I hope he will correct me.) I personally know nothing about the Properities of Aluminum but it seems Brightness does...and You have not posted anything to factually refute what he has said. Replies to this message: kyfdx (Feb 18, 2005 9:59 am) michael_mattox (Feb 18, 2005 10:09 am) kyfdx (Feb 18, 2005 10:22 am) and 3 more... brightness04 (Feb 19, 2005 2:50 am) syswei (Feb 19, 2005 6:50 am) denaliinpa (Feb 19, 2005 6:58 am) and 1 more... brightness04 (Feb 19, 2005 2:36 am)
#7739 of 24700 Re: brightness04 [michael_mattox] by kyfdx HOST Feb 18, 2005 (9:59 am)
Replying to: michael_mattox (Feb 18, 2005 9:51 am) Nothing to refute.. Just because steel in its raw form is heavier than aluminum, doesn't mean that anything brightness04 said about it is correct.. Why refute a point that hasn't been made?.. I've seen nothing that implies any special knowledge or experience about aluminum.. other than maybe his soft drink comes in an aluminum can.. And, unless it implies something about the relative safety of the Audi A8, itself, then what possible relevance could it have? Just a way to snipe at the Audi, if you ask me.. regards, kyfdx Replies to this message: michael_mattox (Feb 18, 2005 10:09 am) kyfdx (Feb 18, 2005 10:22 am) michael_mattox (Feb 18, 2005 4:15 pm) and 2 more... brightness04 (Feb 19, 2005 2:50 am) syswei (Feb 19, 2005 6:50 am) denaliinpa (Feb 19, 2005 6:58 am) brightness04 (Feb 19, 2005 7:08 am)
#7740 of 24700 Re: Lexus...brand vs reality [denaliinpa] by michael_mattox Feb 18, 2005 (10:02 am)
Replying to: denaliinpa (Feb 18, 2005 5:53 am) Hmmmmmm Has Rolls and Bentley gone to AWD...Are most S Class Mercedes AWD? I believe RWD is the traditional configuration for Most LUX CARS... My comment was made because you seemed to be fixated on Horse Power...and Speed...LEXUS LS is faster then the Audi A8...
#7741 of 24700 Re: brightness04 [kyfdx] by michael_mattox Feb 18, 2005 (10:09 am)
Replying to: kyfdx (Feb 18, 2005 9:59 am) kyfdx: It does say something about the relative safety of the A8...It says that car would be Safer and less costly to repair if it were made of Steel. Brightness said Aluminum is more Brittle then steel...do you have any knowledge that it is not? Brightness said that Aluminum Burns at a lower tempture then Steel...Do you have any knowledge that it does not? Birghtness said that Aluminum is more expensive to repair then steel...Do you have any knowledge that it is not? I noticed YOU did not give anything to refute the comments by Brightness...If you disagree show us something. Replies to this message: kyfdx (Feb 18, 2005 10:22 am) michael_mattox (Feb 18, 2005 4:15 pm) denaliinpa (Feb 18, 2005 4:53 pm) and 1 more...