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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24699 messages, Last post on Nov 30, 2009 at 6:41 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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A review of car is a funny thing. One minute they are correct in every way and the next the reviewers don't know what they're talking, all depending on what they say about the car a person likes. I simply don't like the GS so a review really can't sell me the car. If were fortunate enough to actually be in this market I'd pick an E-Class or A6 over the GS, and the M35/45 also over the GS300/430. Most likely. "I believe a *high-end lux* car/truck is one with features and contents not found in pedestrian/mass-produced cars/trucks. Features like high-end audio (ML, Bose, etc), voice-activated Nav, radar/laser-CC, drive-by-wire, brake-by-wire, bluetooth, parking-assist, rear-camera, 5-/6-/7-speed tranny, cooled/heated seats, V8-powered or higher (no wimpy v6s, pls), state-of-the-art in safety gadgets, unparalleled quality and refinement, low NVH, good handling and performance, highly reliable, and best-in-class customer service." I agree with this for the most part, but you can put these features on any car and it still doesn't always mean its a luxury car, imo. To me a luxury car is, yes a car that has features that regular cars don't have, but its the way all of this is intergrated that makes a luxury car. Also the quality of build, performance, styling and heritage make up the luxury car experience or defines what a luxury car is, again imo. So we're not that far apart here. To me (not anyone else here) I like the fact that Mercedes can make a taxi cab E240 and a E55 AMG out of the same basic car. I like the fact they can make an A-Class to compete with everyone else while a SL65 AMG mixes it up with Ferraris, Bentleys and Aston-Martins (see the March issue of CAR magazine). To me that is part of lure of Mercedes-Benz, to me. That an the fact that they aren't scared to introduce new technology. Now that brake by wire is present in the E-Class, Lexus has just done it for the GS. That says volumes to me, again it doesn't have to anyone else, I'm saying just to me. Mercedes' biggest problem is reliability and that has been said many times and many ways. Another thing while I'm crazy about Mercedes' cars they aren't my favorite in every segment either nor have I ever said they're the best in every segment, which is why I'm not exactly on the same page on every issue with the other German car defenders here. I give credit where it is due and I'm crazy about certain cars from everywhere, not just Germany. "Which company sells the most cars/trucks north of $50K here in the US ?" Ahh...it certainly isn't Lexus. Between the cars that Lexus sells that are over 50K: LS430, LX470, GS430 and SC430 Lexus doesn't sell as many S-Class, CL, SL, G, E500s, E55s, CLK500s, CLK55s and now CLS-Class cars (all of these being over 50K) that Mercedes does. If you're going to set the bar at 50k then its Mercedes, or at 60K, 70K, 80K. I think you'd have to go past 100K to find volume sales in another brand like Bentley maybe. Between 50K to 100K Mercedes sells more than anyone else. This is kinda my point when I see the sales ranting here, because Mercedes isn't priced like Lexus and yet they're expected to win a sales race. The have far more models over 50K than they do under 50K. M
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 Why was I not made of stone like thee? Merc, how can you like the 300C and not the GS? Among other things, the mug on the 300C looks like a badly carved Halloween pumpkin. And the baggy, puffy headlamps look like they have conjunctivitis.
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| The Passat has some talent. Shapely. It has the verve that the Lucerne is missing. However, there’s Japanese influence on the lamps with those disruptive circular breaks...Acura, Subaru. All of these companies just HAVE to pick up on each others cues. That said, VW does a better job than most with styling IMO. | |
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Replying to: michael_mattox (Feb 17, 2005 8:27 pm)
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Replying to: denaliinpa (Feb 18, 2005 5:53 am) So Rolls-Royce is not a true luxury brand? like I've said time and time again....3 specific cars SC,LS, and GS don't make a luxury brand....more of like an upscale Scion. Whatever, all three of them are far more luxurious and at far higher price points than the majority of MB's sold (A and C). SC and LS are in fact higher than E class. So you think S class and Maybach are upscale Smarts? |
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Hi all, Wow, the posts keep piling on in here.. "now if Lexus was a true luxury brand they would have an AWD luxury sedan." Wait a second...Neither the XJ or BMW 7 has a AWD car..Does that mean it's not a true Luxury car? Since when does AWD classify anything as a Luxury car? Does that make Subaru one too? I personally would not want one. I live in Boston where winters are rough, but get by fine on 4 snow tires..That's not to say AWD isn't useful, but the marketing hype would have us believe we're going to get stranded if we don't buy one! "....3 specific cars SC,LS, and GS don't make a luxury brand....more of like an upscale Scion. " Oh boy..The Scion has been around for what, a year? Are you just trying to bait us? Jaguar only has three Luxury cars as well, XJ, XK, and S Type...Models like the rebadged Ford Mondeo wannabe X-Type aren't helping..The sad thing is that they're even using Ford derivative V6's in their XJ6..Sad.. Merc, I've seen the A-Class in person here in London..It just looks like a tin can to me..What are they accomplishing by going so down market? Isn't this what they bought Chrysler for? From a business perspective it would make more sense to concentrate on the Neon to penetrate this segment rather than dilute the MB brand name. Mercedes should concentrate on their E and above models and delegate the rest to Chrysler..I just think Chrysler has more experience building the cheaper cars, while MB has the decided advantage in the upmarket products. You mentioned that they would bring the S320 CDI to the US in a s400 form..Is that because of the Horsepower wars? I asked someone with a S320 and he commented it was fast enough on the Motorways here..I know they wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't mind a car without all this electronic nonsense! Sv
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Replying to: brightness04 (Feb 17, 2005 10:40 pm) if the post earlier is correct that Lexus has 250 dealers in the US....they're in more trouble in Europe marketing their brand than anybody is admitting. when it comes to barking about MB and the other German brands having smaller cars in Europe...i find it ridiculous. they still make the only true luxury flagships that right now Lexus or any other Janpanese brand can only go visit in a MB showroom . that must just suck! no AWD versions, no high performance versions, no extended wheelbases. i am amazed at how the Lexus fans would like to ignore how Lexus has been succesful in only one market. does this make it as a luxury brand? ....i can hear it already...jdpowers..jdpowers..jdpowers!!!!!
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Replying to: merc1 (Feb 18, 2005 12:18 am) The same can be said of Chevy, Ford and Dodge, with their Corvette, 550hp GT and Viper. Which company sells the most cars/trucks north of $50K here in the US ?" Ahh...it certainly isn't Lexus. Between the cars that Lexus sells that are over 50K: LS430, LX470, GS430 and SC430 Lexus doesn't sell as many S-Class, CL, SL, G, E500s, E55s, CLK500s, CLK55s and now CLS-Class cars (all of these being over 50K) that Mercedes does Your assessment is probably incorrect. Lexus sells around 3300 LS430 and LX470 alone each month; add almost all of the 2800 or so GX470 which are usually priced over $50k when popular options are added; the a small per centage of fully loaded RX330's, which has a huge base number to work with, like 9-10k units, even if only 10% of them are fully loaded, that's another 1k units. Add another 700-1k units for SC430. We have what, 7-8k Lexus units sold in the US being over $50k, estimated very conservatively, before even counting any GS model at all. MB only sells 12-13k cars in the US a month. There is simply no way more than half of them are over $50k. MB has a lot of models, but precious little unit sales among its high end models. That also explains why MB quality has gone down the toilet: what little engineering budget there is has to be spread thin.
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Denali, It's the fact that Lexus has been so successful in the biggest market of them all: the USA...It's like saying the best team in the NFL couldn't do battle in the Canadian Football league. Without a doubt you're correct in saying they'll have to modify the design and feel of their cars. What luxury true flagships are you talking about? Most cars I see in London are S320's,Jag Xj6's and 735i's..I haven't seen a Single Audi A8 yet, but have been quite a few LS430's. You can't disqualify Lexus on the basis of Wheelbase!!! As earlier posts point out, neither is AWD a criteria for judging a marque..It seems your judgements about Europe aren't true..I'm here right now and have yet to confirm anything you've said...Prestige doesn't come with marketing a S600 or 750 that hardly anyone buys!!! If that were the case Jaguar never would have retired the XJ12. Even their Supercharged Vanden Plas XJ doesn't sell that well,in fact their best seller is the XJ6!!..Prestige in my book is selling eye catching, high performance, superior quality cars. I don't know what you're harping on about, but nothing the Germans offer is especially breath taking in design..They've managed to even screw up Rolls Royce..The new one is hardly as stately as the old one..My British colleagues feel the same way about the Jaguar XJ as well. If I wanted a breath taking car I'd buy an older XJ8. Nothing the Germans make can match the inviting Gentleman's Club interior that the Vanden Plas has. Sure they offer more electronics, but Jaguar has them beat in styling and even quality to boot! (look at the last JDP survey) What do you think of that! As I mentioned a few posts before I was looking to justify a purchase of a XJ without having my wife steal it or kick me out..Well I found the perfect excuse! My son will be returning home from college here in London and will be in the market for a car..Unfortunately, I've taught him too well and he wants to lease himself an ES330...In an attempt to bribe him I've offered to subsidize a purchase of a '03 XJ8..This way I get to have my cake and eat it too!! SV |
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