Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#7699 of 24726 Re: [brightness04]
Feb 17, 2005 (9:38 pm)
My point about the CLK DTM AMG was two fold. One it was an attempt the change the direction the increasingly lame conversation on this board and two Lexus has nothing even closely similar hence the catchet that the Mercedes brand enjoys worldwide. What you and others seem to forget is that Mercedes made its name on luxury and sports cars, not A-Classes. The A-Class and 190 (C-Class ancestor) weren't on the market until 1997 and 1983 respectively, which is why despite your incorrect sales theories Mercedes in particular is still seen as an upscale brand.
#7700 of 24726 Re: merc1 [ljflx]
Feb 17, 2005 (9:45 pm)
"That's a great looking MB you posted. Do you know why they killed the Mcclaren relationship?"
I'd say money. Mercedes is no longer in a position to take on Ferrari and Lamborghini in such a tight market. They would have been spending money that they don't have to build 3 more sports cars after the SLR. Interestingly enough though there is an interview with the head of Mclaren in the March issue of CAR magazine in which he says the relationship is just on hold, in other words when things get better they'll review it again. Its basically the same thing with Smart. This new guy, Cordes is looking it right the core business (Mercedes-Benz) before doing anything else and I agree totally. Chasing Ferrari is grand idea, but not right now.
I'm done with the leasing talk my friend because none of what you said has anything to do with folk who aren't leasing.
#7701 of 24726 Re: Curious Point...... [merc1]
Feb 17, 2005 (9:50 pm)
Numbers please not guesses. The A-Class in particular is no where near that popular in Europe to be half all Mercedes sales.
Section 3 under the title "Mercedes-Benz sales in Germany up 22 percent in November" reads:
As was the case in October, Mercedes-Benzí biggest sales increase in November was recorded in its primary sales market Germany: A total of 32,200 Mercedes-Benz passenger cars were delivered to customers in Germany, . . . In November alone, sales of the compact model series rose by 62 percent, setting a new record of 16,600 units.
16,600 units out of 32,200 is just over 50%!
#7702 of 24726 Re: Curious Point...... [rl81]
Feb 17, 2005 (9:50 pm)
"The A-class, A3, and the 1 series are not supposed to be luxury, they are 'premium-compacts'. I don't know about you but I can live with that."
I can too. Mercedes, BMW and Audi would be crazy to not offer the A, B-Classes, 1-Series and A3 in their home markets. Doesn't detract away from their upper end cars one bit to me.
#7703 of 24726 brightness04
Feb 17, 2005 (9:52 pm)
"16,600 units out of 32,200 is just over 50%!"
So what? Brand new model sets a sales record for one month in one country and all of sudden Mercedes isn't a luxury brand anymore. Right. That is totally ridiculous. Plus you stated in Europe, you know like the whole continent, not just Germany. Wrong. What do you expect Germans to buy other than German cars?
I also have to ask if you've read anything about the new A-Class other than a sales report? The car is much better and more in line with more expensive MBs than the first A-Class ever was.
The Audi A3 you're knocking has the typical Audi interior, which more often than not is considered the standard of the industry, so to say that the A3 is less luxurious than a Honda or Toyota is totally baseless and absurd.
#7704 of 24726 Re: brightness04 [merc1]
Feb 17, 2005 (10:00 pm)
Prove it then . . .
Since you did not dispute the lower melting point and flaming point of aluminum vis steel, we can safely assume that we have that aspect settled.
Now onto tensile strength:
As you can see, most grades of industrial steel has tensile strength in the 300-600 MPa range, whereas most Aluminum grades are between 200-300.
#7705 of 24726 Re: Oac [ljflx]
Feb 17, 2005 (10:04 pm)
My second thought was how could my cyber buddy - You - possibly start to like this thing. The E was by far the best looking car of the group - until this new GS comes out
You know, I am starting to question my own sanity re the Bangled 5. One day I like it, another day I wonder, what the heck ?? So today, I am in the "what the heck" feeling. I thought it would grow on me, but then I see the rear and poof goes my positive thoughts of it....
But that M6 ??? It takes the crown for the ugliest butt of all ! What were they thinking ???
#7706 of 24726 Re: brightness04 [brightness04]
Feb 17, 2005 (10:09 pm)
"Since you did not dispute the lower melting point and flaming point of aluminum vis steel, we can safely assume that we have that aspect settled."
Again, what does any of this have do with the A8 itself. You stated that it was less safe, either post a link with crash test scores or leave it alone. The Lexus crowd is pretty good at producing stats for this or that, but here it seems you can't find any to back up the claim that the A8 is "less safe". Sheetmetal is made to bend in a crash, its the structure of the car that does the protecting.
Feb 17, 2005 (10:11 pm)
Sorry, but that GS looks like a whale to me. I've seen it on the road now too, and it is just one of the most unbalanced designs I've yet seen, imo of course. If this is Lexus' new styling theme they're going to remain last in that category because frankly Infinitis (except the Q45) look much better to me.
#7708 of 24726 Re: brightness04 [merc1]
Feb 17, 2005 (10:12 pm)
A-class and A3 are RSX-like dressed up econoboxes! Even the C-Class and A4 are little more than compacts. With these two tiers accounting for the majority of MB's and Audi's sold nowadays, the marquees are hardly high end luxury.
100 hand-made super cars are less than a drop in a bucket. A few 550hp GT have not made Ford a marquee for super race cars; nor have a few 500hp V10 Vipers made Dodge into a ultra performance brand. Not even the thousands of Corvettes sold every year made Chevy a performance brand. That's where MB and Audi are headed, the company of Ford, Dodge and Chevy, because they can not even keep up with Toyota and Honda for quality.