Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#7536 of 24726 Tick Tock for MB
Feb 15, 2005 (4:31 pm)
From Detroit News:
"On Thursday, DaimlerChrysler said its fourth-quarter net profit fell 63 percent to 526 million euros ($712 million) from 1.4 billion euros a year ago as Mercedes, once its star division, struggled with quality problems and the dollar's weakness against the euro, which hurt its results in the key U.S. market.
While once-troubled U.S. unit Chrysler more than doubled its fourth-quarter operating earnings to 386 million euros ($523 million) from 143 million euros a year ago, earnings at Mercedes nearly evaporated -- falling to just 20 million euros ($27 million) from 784 million euros.
DaimlerChrysler CEO Juergen Schrempp called the Mercedes result "unacceptable" and announced a plan to cut costs and boost revenues that he said would improve the division's profit margin to 7 percent by 2007. It currently stands at 3.5 percent."
This has about as much credibility as Bush cutting the deficit in half by 2009. Wink, wink.
#7537 of 24726 Re: [flyfisher1]
Feb 15, 2005 (4:44 pm)
And you don't think that same feeling exists in a Lexus, specifically the LS430??
Designman - Re last nights comment - I would tend to agree with your comment if you narrowed it from German cars to BMW's. I know people that won't ever go near an MB or Audi again. Never met anyone who said that about a BMW. Friends warned us to stay away from the 7 in the late 90's because they had some bad experiences and knew my wife and I would never put up with the problems they did. Yet they stayed BMW in cars although they did bring in the LX and RX from Lexus as SUV's. That's what is always so funny about this - so many multiple brand owners exist.
#7538 of 24726 Re: 1980's MB [sv7887][merc1]
Feb 15, 2005 (4:53 pm)
I've been lurking here for a while, but never posted on this board before.
I grew up in a household of Mercedes-Benz cars, and my father bought his first M-B (a 1968 280-SE) when most people were still coveting Cadillacs.
But I'm here to tell you that M-B quality has diminished, I'm no longer loyal to the brand, and Lexus products appeal to me.
BTW: My opinion has also been swayed by the fact that VERY few cars are now truly exclusive. If you can sign your name, you can drive whatever you want. In my city, expensive brands/cars are EVERYWHERE. I mean, really, who's impressed? When everyone drives a luxury marque, will anybody notice?
We're still holding on to my late mother's '92 300-E because it has less than 70K on the odo, and it represents the last of an era when Mercedes-Benz products were built to a standard, not to a price.
#7539 of 24726 Audi/BMW/MB
Feb 15, 2005 (4:57 pm)
Audi sold how many A8's last year ? 5900 units. Whoopie ? Many buyers must love it so much that it came at a distant 4th position to LS/S/7 in sales. Must be only the 6K people want that rock solid good handling well put together feel of the German-engineered Audi A8.
As to gizmos ? You gotta be kidding ! If you mean gizmos that actually work as intended, absolutely the Lexus trumps the competition. But for sheer gizmos, no car beats the S-class ! You should know what you are talking about before jumping in here.
#7540 of 24726 Message from the CEO of Lexus
Feb 15, 2005 (5:10 pm)
Gizmos? Gizmos? We don't need no stinkin' gizmos!!
#7541 of 24726 Re: Audi/BMW/MB [oac]
Feb 15, 2005 (5:53 pm)
i just purchased an 05 SWB A8.
beautiful automobile. nope.... it doesn't sell in the numbers that an LS430 does. I'm sure one of those reasons is price. the A8 is more expensive and also is only available with awd.
another nice quality about the A8 is the ability to purchase the car in a long wheel base version or short. plus....what's more advanced than an automobile made completely of aluminum? right now the demand for the A8 is pretty strong. better discounts are available on the LS by far. take a look at what options are available in an A8, S, or 7. take a good hard look. these are upscale luxury cars. the Ls430 is just not in the same league. nice car but not enough of it. but...i do think Lexus will within 10 years produce a vehicle that is comparable.
as for the S class being king....what i was trying to convey is that the S class dominates in its segment. i was excluding the brands that sell at price points starting above 150k.
Feb 15, 2005 (6:09 pm)
what color and options did you get?
the Japanese make nice automobiles but
they need help.... in my opinion in the
styling department. they either are too
bland or just strange in appearance. they seem to have
their electronics down pat. when it comes
to HP and available options the Germans just plain stomp on them.
#7543 of 24726 Re: Audi/BMW/MB [denaliinpa]
Feb 15, 2005 (6:11 pm)
LS430 not comparable with S, 7 and A8 ? LOL !! Not according to even the enthusiast magazines. Not only is the LS430 tested together with these cars, but it came out first & second & the results are not price adjusted, so the LS430 really did very well against them not because it cost less than the others. Where is the S class? It's placed last in one & I think 4th in another.And these enthusiast magazines usually are heavily biased towards more sporty & more German feel vehicles too. They also acknowledged that the LS is probably the best equipped of them all, & they didn't even take into account the fact that all the gizmos actually works more flawlessly than those in the European brands as all the surveys known worldwide has showned.
Now you don't have to decide what to buy using the rankings in these mags, and as I said before, the most desirable car is in the eyes of the beholder, but saying the LS is not comparable with the 7,S and A8 is plain ridiculous.
#7544 of 24726 Re: Audi/BMW/MB [denaliinpa]
Feb 15, 2005 (6:15 pm)
No question, the A8 is a spectacular automobile. But unless the recent accolades from the automotive press drive up its re-sale numbers--not to mention doing something about the high cost of insuring an aluminum-bodied vehicle--it's hardly a contender for Lexus in the 'best value' category.
But three years from now, a $35,000 '05 A8 will be on my shopping list.
#7545 of 24726 Re: Audi/BMW/MB [denaliinpa]
Feb 15, 2005 (6:16 pm)
What precisely are the available options on the A8 SWB that get you so excited, that make it an "upscale luxury car" with "the Ls430 is just not in the same league"?