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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 750 of 2473

#7483 of 24723 by merc1

Feb 13, 2005 (10:55 pm)

When I logged on I saw 57 new posts and I thought, gee they must be talking about something very interesting. Wrong. Same old frankly tired stuff about MB and it's problems.
 
ljflx,
 
My friend we have been over this over and over. Most car buyers couldn't care any less about a car company's financials. I'm very curious to know where and how you gauge status and how you're able to predict that Mercedes is going to fall behind BMW in status, which they haven't done since BMW was born, and how they're going to fall behind a made up nameplate like Lexus that doesn't have a sigle car for the enthusiast buyer to even get excited about.
 
Next I'm reading the hilarious story about an E55 owner has a problem with slipping in the rain. Let me see, 469hp, 516lb-ft of torque, summer tires...sounds like he should be able to floor this puppy in the rain. In all honesty I guess I wouldn't expect you to understand that any hi-po car with that much power isn't going to operate at its best in the rain. I can't believe you think there is a problem with the car? Anyone who owns a Corvette, 911, M5, M3 or any other high strung, high powered car has trouble with tires in some way or another, whether it be rain, snow, abnormal wear or just plain noise. The Japanese 350Z is so bad with tire wear that there is currently class action suit against Nissan about it. I'm assuming you didn't know this? Surely you didn't miss all the SC430 owners complaing about run-flats on their SC430? Yet, on this board even tires have become an exclusive Mercedes-Benz problem. I won't even mention anything about skills when dealing with a car with so much power.
 
The reliability issue - if there was ever such a thing as beating a dead horse. Mercedes isn't going to show any reliability improvements until the cars being built in 2004, 2005 on onward are judged 3 years later, or whenever they said they made improvment. For 2005 I'll save you the trouble of posting come April, the 2002 models are going to suck on the precious surveys. No need to look for any improvements on the long-term surveys.
 
I guess someone here had a talk with Mercedes excutive to know that they're afraid of Lexus doing a 100K sports car. To me a 100K, 500hp 2-seat Lexus would be the most irrelevant car possible in a Lexus showroom. Who's going to buy it? Surely not your typical Lexus owner, and in its current form of style it surely isn't going to convert any Porsche, Ferrarri, SL, Corvette, Aston-Martin or Bentley buyers.
 
M

#7484 of 24723 Ljflx by merc1

Feb 13, 2005 (11:17 pm)

Now the A-Class and Smart are image problems with Mercedes too? Smart is a seperate brand entirely. You know like Toyota is supposed to be seperate from Lexus. Smarts don't look anything like Mercedes, unlike Toyota's Camry Solara and the Lexus SC430 and now the Avalon which has a Lexus interior if there ever was such a thing. Talk about hurting the image. Why would anyone buy a ES330 over the more powerful, larger, same gush interior Avalon? Smart doesn't even compete with any Mercedes models, unlike Toyota and Lexus which have some overlap.
 
The A-Class first came out in 1997 and it was a sales hit and it hasn't done a thing to the Mercedes' image and the second generation that just went on sale in 2004 has been getting great reviews all across Europe. When is Mercedes image supposed to fall because of the A-Class, when the 3rd and 4th generation models appear in 2010, or 2016? The new A-Class is even built like a proper Mercedes. Read up on the car before making so many assumptions.
 
"Not sure what you mean about the LS catchng up to the S-class in sales. It's badly outsold the S-class in 2001 thru 2004."
 
Does the fact that the LS430 starts at 56K compared to 70K+ plus for the S-Class have anything to do with this at all? I'm not even saying it is the sole reason, that it is a factor. Everyone doesn't lease.
 
"By the way the last time I looked the SC sold about 12k cars a year in the US which is about the same as the SL.
 
Considering that the SL costs more than 25K more than the SC430 the should have sold more than the SL by far, and 12K is wrong, it sold 9,708 last year and the SL sold 12,885. (Source: http://www.aicautosite.com/)
 
M

#7485 of 24723 Ljflx by merc1

Feb 13, 2005 (11:26 pm)

Is this Lexus' bulletproof quality:
 
"BEIJING, Jan. 25 -- Toyota Motor Corp, Japan's leading automaker, said yesterday it started recalling 1,717 Lexus vehicles sold on the Chinese mainland due to possible fuel pump defects.
 
The recall will affect Lexus LS430 sedans made between July 29, 2003, and March 8, 2004, Toyota Motor (China) Limited said in a statement.
 
The company, which is based in Hong Kong and responsible for Toyota's exports to China, applied to the mainland's General Administration of Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine to recall the sedans.
 
"Impellers in the fuel pumps may be distorted. If the condition is serious, pumps will not work and result in the explosion of the engine," the company said.
 
Authorized Lexus dealerships on the mainland, whose numbers will jump from six to 14 by the middle of this year, will help owners of Lexus 430 sedans replace their cars' fuel pumps free of charge.
 
The recall will end on April 30, the company said.
 
This is Toyota's second recall of Lexus vehicles on the mainland in seven months.
 
Last July, Toyota ordered back in 1,489 Lexus LS430 sedans due to problems with the model's transmission.
 
Toyota is currently importing and selling the Lexus LS430, GS300, RX300 and IS200 on the mainland and will launch the Lexus GS430 later this year.
 
Analysts say auto recalls will become more frequent in China with growing vehicle sales and the implementation of compulsory vehicle recall regulations last October.
 
A number of other foreign automakers have also been forced to order mainland recalls over the past year, including Mitsubishi Motors, Mercedes-Benz and Volvo.
 
Automakers in China - including Sino-foreign joint ventures - which have shunned auto recalls in the past due to a lack of legislation, have also begun recalling defective products.
 
Source: http://www.theautochannel.com/F/news/Headlines-Automotive.html
 
Tuesday Jan 25th 2005.
 
 
Yes, you said Mercedes was either in or heading towards financial trouble, thing is no one here ever cared enough about that side of the business (I know I didn't) to argue it then or now. They'll suffer until they right the ship and just like any other company their backs will be pressed to the wall and they'll do what they have to survive. Nissan was in the same exact boat. None of this will change the way I feel about their products.
 
M

#7486 of 24723 Re: Ljflx [merc1] by oac

Feb 13, 2005 (11:33 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Feb 13, 2005 11:17 pm)
Does the fact that the LS430 starts at 56K compared to 70K+ plus for the S-Class have anything to do with this at all? I'm not even saying it is the sole reason, that it is a factor. Everyone doesn't lease.
 
To the contrary, you've always used this as the SOLE reason. But its same old tired excuses, again, Merc1. C'mon.... Give it up. Why is MB priced so high ? Do you factor that in as well ? The MSRP on these MBs are simply *asking* prices. The real-world prices are often much lower. The LS430/UL delivers all that an S430/S500 has (except 4matic) for $15-20K less.
 
Let's turn this around. Would you not expect higher-priced, higher brand image, more diverse offerings, and higher status MBs to have higher profit margins ? I guess business and financial performance doesn't matter to DCX or their investors..... according to Merc1 and other MB fans. Who cares if the company makes money ! These cars will always be there. Always have the $$$ to invest in R&D. Always have the $$$ for the innovation and improvement necessary to maintain market share. Do you need money to do all these ? Of course not, according to some of you MB fans....
  
Just continue to ignore the bottom-line, and the top-line disappears... and poof !

#7487 of 24723 Oac by merc1

Feb 13, 2005 (11:40 pm)

Wrong again my friend I have said from day one that price was but one factor in sales of LS over the other cars it competes with.
 
I personally couldn't care less why they are priced higher as that wasn't the subject of the debate. Real world prices, transaction prices aren't going to erase a 15-20K price difference, which is a lot even by your estimation.
 
I'm not a DCX shareholder so this whole conversation is mute to me, I like the cars. Call me simple. I have ideas about the products and how to improve them, but the business side is not my things so let them handle it.
 
BTW, I'm looking at your post about the LS' history. The first model ran from 1990-1994, not 1995. The 1995-2000 model was a different car. Shame on you for not knowing this........lol!
 
M

#7488 of 24723 Re: Oac [merc1] by oac

Feb 13, 2005 (11:50 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Feb 13, 2005 11:40 pm)
BTW, I'm looking at your post about the LS' history. The first model ran from 1990-1994, not 1995. The 1995-2000 model was a different car. Shame on you for not knowing this........lol!
 
Shame on me indeed Thanks for the correction.

#7489 of 24723 by merc1

Feb 13, 2005 (11:56 pm)

I think we know where everyone stands on Mercedes, Lexus, styling, reliability, who will whip who and nothing has changed, but I think the forum needs to move in another direction. This is lame and I'm getting sick of arguing about the same stuff. No amount of talk about Mercedes styling, hp or anything else will convert the Lexus folk and no amount of surveys, financial talk about Lexus will make me want an actual car from Lexus or anyone else.
 
We really do need to move one to something else? Don't we? I did attend the Chicago Auto Show Friday if anyone wants to hear about it?
 
M

#7491 of 24723 DCX Relationship........... by merc1

Feb 14, 2005 (1:43 am)

There also seems to be a big misconception and only on this board that a Chrysler 300 is a Mercedes E-Class.
 
The Chrysler 300 uses Mercedes parts and/or engineering principles, not an entire E-Class platform. Chrylser basically took what they needed from the 1996-2002 E-Class an adapted it to the 300. The seat frames, some switchgear, suspension design and layout (not actual parts) and some other under the skin things that 99 percent of buyers won't even have a clue about. Chrysler also used steel in place in of aluminum in places like the suspension to keep costs down, which is why you can get a 340hp 300C for 33K. There is no way to transplant an entire E-Class down to 33K with an 340hp V8 engine, even if it is a pushrod V8. The basic 300 models can be had for around 25K, hardly a E-Class transplant implied here by the uninformed.
 
What Chrylser did is very similar, but not the same as what Ford did with the Volvo S80/XC90 platform to create the 500 and Freestyle. Ford however left more Volvo DNA in their products than Chryler did with Mercedes.
 
The only Chrysler that really is an Mercedes in different dress is the Crossfire, and its is a 1998-2004 SLK, not the 2005 model.
 
For the search engine types there are many sources on the net about this to clear up the confusion.
 
M

#7492 of 24723 Significance in Marsha's "Inner City" post by designman

Feb 14, 2005 (5:14 am)

I knew this day would come again. Classic Monday morning.
 
I have only one thing to say that has not been mentioned before. When I see a Lexus pimpmobile, they truly will have made it to the top of the status heap. And don't laugh because this, I believe, is why Camp Lexus fights so tenaciously. They have the price, awards, reliability and cars they are happy with, but they want the status to go along with it—something MB has had for a real long time. Sure, they don't "need" status, but it still eludes the brand nonetheless, and they feel they deserve it because afterall, Lexus is the thinking man's car and, indeed, they are smart thinking people.
 
Trust me, look for that LS pimpmobile. And please, let's not take this too seriously.
 

Messages Page 750 of 2473

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