Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#7317 of 24723 designman
Jan 19, 2005 (10:30 pm)
"The lone M signature appeared on my screen first and I managed a double take. Servants… come hither! Slaughter my best pig, prepare my table, pour my finest wine… my son has returned!"
That is too much! Thanks! Good to be back. So nice to be missed.
The M5 and E55: I meant that the M5 will beat the E55/CLS55 in the comparos and anything else upcoming like the Cadillac STS-V. It is now up to the next Audi RS6 to defeat the new M5. I agree totally about the M5 and the street, as I've always said that BMW builds better track cars (M) and Mercedes builds better road (AMG) cars. All the early reviews still say the M5's SMG transmission is no match for a conventional automatic in day to day (automatic mode) driving. Maybe the next generation SMG trans will finally be as smooth, but I doubt it. Saleswise AMG and M cars both sell well and will continue to do so. Mercedes was aware of the hoopla the M5 would get, hence the slightly different tuned CLS55 AMG. In a Auto, Motor und Sport TV comparo the CLS55 was the equal to the M5 in speed and actually won the comparo becuase the M5 is so uncompromsing on the street, as you noted.
As for the 2007 S-Class it had better wow the critics like the SLK has done. Have you seen the praise for this car? Its even built like a Mercedes should be to boot. It even made the oh so important Car and Driver 10 Best list.
"Can we look forward to those Monday morning breakfasts with Merc again?"
But of course.
Yes the CLS500 has just arrived at dealers with a price of $65,620. It is a stunning car, a complete about face from when I first saw the concept car in 2003.
Thanks again, good to be back on the boards. I have a lot to catch up on here, but I suspect I haven't missed much considering the last few pages about the A8 and LS430. Anyway, I like the M35/45 a good deal, better than the RL or GS. With that said it does kinda have that familar Nissan (Japanese) look about it, kinda like a big Altima or something, and that center console is a little in-your-face-but-plain so its no E-Class or A6 as far as styling goes in my book. It does however look better than the new GS. The Acura RL actually a handsome car from the side and back, but the front is pure Accord. None of the three Japanese midsizers are a complete piece when it comes to styling, imo...but the M does come closest.
I've been told over and over that the M-Class won't offer a third row because the upcoming R-Class and G-Glass replacement will both have a third row.
That the Lexus GS450h is a 2007 model year car is all I heard.
Thanks. I'm just not impressed by the ML though I agree it is an all around better truck than before.
Jan 20, 2005 (12:38 pm)
The new ML is better than the seriously mediocre current one but I'm not easily inpressed or swayed that M.B. is doing better interior wise. The one shown on the Spies site is done in that cheap, drab grey that looks straight out of a 20K Chevy or Pontiac. Materials and execution still look 18K economy car to me Will be tough to be a class leader here, there's so many good alternatives today in this class. The Hybrid Lexi RX400 will be the techno. leader. 15K pre-sold already and long waiting list. Toyota may even overtake GM as the number 1 car maker in the world. Wowzer!
The little SLK is so much better than the old one but this 2-seater market is still soft and very niche, always has been. Too bad they don't offer this level of execution and effort on their bread and butter sedans that pay the bills. S2000 still a sharper handler. Z4 is a bad dream become reality.
The CLS is just a stretched out E class with swoppy rear end Jaguar curves. What's the market purpose of this car I still haven't figured? Another low volume niche car I guess. Sharp racked rear must be real pleasant for the passenger heads. A 4 door billed as a coupe nice try marketing.
The new S class had better be good because new LS will be a show-stopper and they are punching way further up pricewise and performance/technology wise. The apparent finalzed one shown here does not look good. Ugly trunk detailing ridiculed on the 7 series show up here toned down.
The RL could be more dynamic style wise but its the most techno. advanced car of the group as of today. Tuner Mugen just dropped in a 590 hp V8 soley RWD, details on Temple of Vtec. Wicked performance and future potential. Bet Honda is eyeing the upcoming Infiniti Skyline super car in 07 and BMW M models. RL selling very well since Nov. intro. I see zero Accord on the front maybe A pillar similarity but same can be said of the lowly C class to the S. The A-Spec version looks tight.
The VW Phaeton could be the biggest blunder at VW as of late not counting others. Even one of the CEO's said it's destined to failure. Wrong car at the wrong time auto anaylists say. The ultimate lease car of the group. The Jetta might as well have the Toyota logo on front/back. The interior looks nice though. Mazda 3 still the segemnt leader till the all new Civic rolls out this fall.
The new Infiniti duos are going to be segment defining leaders. They are pulling out all the cards. Their getting very postive press and reviews already for the M35/45. A Japanese BMW 5 killer could be? Interiors look way dialed up quality wise and feature wise. The new GS should be interesting, richer interior materials and new direct injection engines coming and AWD should make for much improved driving and new sport suspension chassis. Caddy asking $60K for the STS get real!
#7319 of 24723 Merc1, welcome back !
Jan 20, 2005 (2:24 pm)
Glad to *see* that you are well and in good health. Welcome back, buddy !
Thanks for a well-written auto show report. Can you comment more on the new S style-wise ? Did you see the LF-S in the Lexus stand ? Any whisper on the LF-X ? I know you probably don't care for anything Lexus, but maybe you did hear something.
I have a colleague of mine here at work. His current ride is a '99 528i. He plans to change by next year and wants a non-Bimmer, but within the same class. What will you recommend ? He already drove the new A6 and he likes it, but troubled about reliability issues. I suggested the '05 TL, '06 GS, '05 E500, '05 A6 4.2, or wait for the '06 M35. How would you rank these cars ?
#7320 of 24723 Re: Merc1, welcome back ! [oac]
Jan 20, 2005 (4:52 pm)
Infinity Q35 or something in the Acura line?
#7321 of 24723 The Flying Spur ends the competition
Jan 20, 2005 (8:07 pm)
The next S class (all pics I have seen) looks bad. The A8, BORING, and the 7 series well we all know how that looks....
The Bentley Flying Spur, class, dual turbo 12 cyl power, and top technology along with the classic interior and the biggest trunk!
Best wheel design for this car is at the www.bentleymotors.com website. Agressive looks particularly in a dark color.
Jan 20, 2005 (8:36 pm)
Merc1, let me add my voice also in welcoming you back. But what happened? Were you banned?
One technical question. In your Show report and in some of your much earlier posts you ran over to a second post with a "to be continued". Why? Is there a max line or max character limit per post?
Jan 20, 2005 (10:36 pm)
Wow, I never expected a "welcome back" from you, means a lot considering the battles we've had.
Anyway while I don't care anything about Lexus like I do the Euro brands, they are competition and one must always follow the competition's movements. The didn't have the LF-S but I did see the LF-A, and except for the front end the car is pretty good for a Lexus. I especially like the exposed rear cooling fans..pure aggression. They did have the LF-X there too if thats the smaller IS300 hinting concept from last year. I personally found it to be lacking.
About your friend's choices....me personally without having driven the M35/45 I'd naturally recommend the E500 or the A6 4.2 and then the M45. The Acura TL doesn't play in this league. Did you mean the RL? If so I'd still take the M45 V8 because for the same 50K the Inifniti will run rings around the RL with better styling, more room and the same technology. The only think the RL has over the M45 is awd. I couldn't place the GS due to the look, I personally wouldn't be able to stand looking at it, and the car doesn't appear to getting any changes under the hood of the V8 version. If he wants Euro go for the E or A6, but if reliability is too much of a concern go for the M45...imo the only Japanese car in the segment that is truly outstanding, at least so far.
I'm glad you liked the show report.
#7324 of 24723 Next S-Class
Jan 20, 2005 (10:40 pm)
I see everyone has made up their mind and drawn conclusions about the next S-Class even before having seen one official picture.
That said, in the spy photos I've seen I don't like the rear end treatment and that generc sash line down the sides. That line is way to common on many lesser vehicles and should be on a Mercedes-Benz.
I'll wait until the official pics though because just like the 1996 E-Class and 2001 C-Class didn't look at all right in spy photos they came out just right so I'll wait and see.
#7325 of 24723 blckislandguy
Jan 20, 2005 (10:47 pm)
Thanks for the welcome, and yes there is a limit to size of a post.
I find the sedan just as unattractive as the Coupe version. On paper the specs are impressive, but considering how the Continental GT Coupe got its clock cleaned by the lowly CL600 in a recent comparo I hardly think it will do anything against the next AMG S-Class, rumored to have at least 500hp, and in Europe is there is already a 604hp S65 AMG.
Jan 21, 2005 (12:37 pm)
Wow the LF-A is surely happening, big bucks around $125K according to Danny Clemens. Wonder if Honda has a trick up their sleeve with the NSX? They sure can't let it sit like it is and get passed up by everyone.