Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#7221 of 24726 2003 745Li search
Jan 08, 2005 (4:47 am)
We are in the market for a 2003 745Li. We currently have these two offers and I will appreciate any comments that members of this forum have before making our final decision.
Car 1: 2003 754Li; 23k miles. Navigation. Luxury pkg. Shades. Comfort front seats & heated rear seats. Heated steering wheel. Computer. Xenon lights w/ washers. Premium sound pkg. 19” Alloys. Non-BMW dealership, no CPO. Asking price is $57,995.
Car 2: 2003 745Li; 34K miles. Luxury seating package; premium sound pkg; convenience pkg. parktronic. BMW CPO. Asking price is $56700.
Which of these two will be a better deal?
#7222 of 24726 Re: [ljflx]
Jan 08, 2005 (11:59 am)
But then again, people who buy fresh-off-a-lease cars typically get extended warranty perks, which distorts that picture. Because that makes the MB -and I just use them because you mention them in your example- a downright attractive 3 year old choice (not for me, though, too late for damage control): between the lower price tag and the Starmark stuff they wrap into their 2-3 year old cars... Think about it, in my particular example if I has leased and then bought the car off the lease, I would have saved myself over $4.5k in maintenance costs already which MB is willing to subsidize for cars they sell through the leasing channel and then flip... and this seems a common business practise. All reliability does in that case is add to the vendors' margins (since they're footing the bill for service costs in such a scenario), the benefit to the consumer is merely less inconvenience. And I'll put up with some inconvenience, and will increasingly do so with a smile when it saves me increasing amounts of money. With my particular ownership, I have inconvience, plus high maintenance costs, and all for the privilege of pride of ownership for a 5 year old car... it just doesn't compute for me when I add up the numbers alone, let alone the gutfeel element. So yes, *if* I were to go for pride of ownership, I'd pick the Lex over the MB every time now, because reputation for reliability does count heavily when you buy a car (didn't in '99/'00, which was short sighted by me). But I'd probably lease it first and then buy it off the lease, which as I understand is also what you consider doing. The MB experience is probably one I'll never go for again - which is sad given the fact that I come from a Merc-loving family (which I never quite went for myself, my wife's is the first MB I've ever bought). But contrast my experience with old-school Mercedes: my mother has had hers for about 11 years now (and she bought it as it was 6 to 8 years old), and it looks good and drives safely and reliably - and I doubt she spends more than $200 in yearly maintenance. it's one of those indestructible diesels... those were the days when such cars were built to last their owners forever.
Mind you, this is not nostalgia speaking: today's cars are far better and safer drives than almost any car that's over 10 years old. My everyday driving car is something I probably would not keep for 15 years...
I guess my point simply is that going forward I think I'll lease cars, a major shift in my personal approach to car ownership, and I do that simply because I think the concept of ownership is slowly but surely being obsoleted. Ownership makes little sense if I *have* to buy a new car every 5 years. I need the option to keep the car longer without it becoming a total financial liability, which any modern car has potential to do given its complexity.
Jan 08, 2005 (5:48 pm)
In my opinion buying vs leasing is a trivial nickel/dime decision. Deciding on the car that suits you best is where it’s at.
#7224 of 24726 Re: Perspective [designman]
by kyfdx@Edmunds HOST
Jan 08, 2005 (8:55 pm)
I agree somewhat..
Buying vs. leasing is more of a "financing" decision in my book..
Sometimes it is more than nickel/dime... Sometimes the manufacturer lays on lease incentives only.. Then, even if you are a cash customer, you can't ignore the advantages..
Getting the right car IS the most important thing.
#7225 of 24726 Re: Perspective [designman]
Jan 09, 2005 (12:03 pm)
I find that a Carerra GT "suits me best", but guess what I cannot afford one at this time - leasing or buying. So, I am influenced by the "nickel/dime" decision. Maybe some day I'll be like you, designman, where I never have to think of the cost, just "what suits me best".
Jan 09, 2005 (6:08 pm)
A-h-h Oac, tell me you are kidding. You missed my point. You can buy or lease a Corolla or a Quattroporte, so buying vs leasing has little to do with cost. Surely expensive cars “suit” most of us. I’m talking about finding the right car within a given budget. It really doesn’t matter which method is chosen because you are going to pay for the car either way. Any difference is what I call “nickel/dime”.
By the way, I choose to buy for the following reasons:
1 – Feel handcuffed by the duration of the lease
2 – Ditto with mileage
3 – Buying costs less (kyfdx, I expect a response from you here
One great thing about leasing though, I love the idea of walking away from the car with the option to buy. Now if we REALLY wanted to save money the way to go is buy used and keep the car longterm.
BTW, if I wanted to buy what “suited” me by your interpretation I’d have a 911 Turbo, E39 M5, Boxster and an S55 AMG for the little woman, unless of course she chose the LS which I have a feeling is what she will want the next time around unless BMW comes to its senses. You have no idea how she loves the 530 but hates the new designs—just like me.
One more thing. I can honestly say that this “pride of ownership” thing is something that never crossed my mind. I recognize the fact that some of the smartest investors are always in “hock”… using other people’s money to make money. This can be risky business though if you don’t know what you are doing. Remember in the early 90s when the Donald had a negative worth of what, some $500 mil? My father was a cash buyer and always told me never to buy stocks on margin so I guess I inherited some (not all) of his attitude. That missive by kgary kind of reminded me of him although I disagree with some of that.
Oac, you don't want the Carrera GT, you'd be hitting bottom all over the place. You'd need a fork lift to get it into every gas station
#7227 of 24726 Gas prices
Jan 09, 2005 (6:44 pm)
They have plummeted here in NJ. I paid 178.9 for 93 octane today.
Designman - I've never bought stocks on margin. That is the one line I'll never cross. Leasing and auto financing are small potatoes and loans for property that never seems to stop rising in price are very safe bets always. If I didn't take a mortgage to buy my home I'd have missed a large jump in net worth as a result. You've got to find the right mix where you're not a slave to cash and not a slave to debt.
Jan 10, 2005 (6:31 am)
I think you hit the nail on the head earlier when you alluded to handling debt by being in a positive cash flow/equity situation. Some people keep going up in debt without being able to cover it and without even realizing it—trouble.
IMO margin buying isn't much different from rolling dice with house credit.
NJ gas prices must have gone down in two days. I think it was 1.97 on Friday.