Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#7114 of 24723 Re: [pablo_l]
Dec 18, 2004 (12:09 am)
You make an excellent point; reliability is not the only factor that makes a car great. Otherwise, Jaguar would have never sold one car. But you lost me on your factual observations re: reliability ("all these brands are within 10% of each other"). According to the 2004 JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study, MB had 327 problems reported per 100 cars, BMW had 264, and Lexus had 162. That doesn't look like 10% differences to me. And this is based on 48,000 people reporting on their 3 years of ownership of MY 2001 cars. Seems that is a statistically significant universe. Granted, things could have radically changed since MY 2001, but does anyone really think that is the case?
#7115 of 24723 Re: [garyh1]
Dec 18, 2004 (10:22 am)
It's a 90%+ likelihood that it has swung even further into Lexus' favor.
BMW - The 5 and 3 hold their values pretty well, the 7 has always been abysmal. But all of this will probably change for the worse though with i-drive and the ugly new designs. Maybe kdshapiro finds those designs exciting but I certainly don't.
Dec 18, 2004 (11:42 am)
Well said. Amen!
Dec 18, 2004 (11:54 am)
I don't think so as long as the majority of BMW customers still believe they are drivers cars, their values will hold.
I didn't buy BMW for it's reliability, but then again I didn't think it would require 5 service visits in 3 years either including scheduled maintenance and a trip to the uh body shop - I bought it for it's legendary road feel and handling. 100% of people I talk to about BMWs are of the same opinion.
#7118 of 24723 Re: [kdshapiro]
Dec 18, 2004 (12:48 pm)
Let's see, five visits in three years, including a body shop visit and three scheduled maintenances. That sounds like one non-maintenance, non-owner error visit, in three years. That's not bad at all.
Dec 18, 2004 (2:23 pm)
No one has suggested or implied that ALL BMW cars are unreliable. Far from it. What survey shows (see post #7114) is a greater propensity for problems than some of its peers. Numbers don't lie. Even BMW dealers are spinning this issue to their advantage and making money off this reliability issues, charging far higher $ from those who are enamored with the name-plate, and buying a CPO BMW. What will be sad is for BMW execs to refuse to do anything, believing, as kdshapiro said above that people will buy their cars and trucks for their "... legendary road feel and handling..." Don't forget that 90+% of owners don't feel the same way; they are buying the name...
Dec 18, 2004 (4:01 pm)
"Don't forget that 90+% of owners don't feel the same way; they are buying the name..."
They are buying for the name because the name implies "the legendary road feel and handling..." BMW has worked hard to engineer that into their vehicles.
Dec 18, 2004 (8:33 pm)
"Don't forget that 90+% of owners don't feel the same way; they are buying the name...
Where did you get that number and what exactly is the implication? I hope you don't mean only status because as kdshapiro suggested there is equity in the BMW name.
Dec 18, 2004 (8:50 pm)
"Equity in the BMW name." Designman, this is too much MBA talk. Are you saying that the brand has trasferrable value (i.e., "equity") apart from perceptions of status, handling, exclusivity, sophistication of engineering, etc? Brands have no inherent value beyond commonly held and accepted perceptions. (Who was the social scientist that said that "what men define as real is real and has consequences"?). BMW has equity, positive equity, in that socialpsychological sense. A Neon has equity too but it is probably negative equity.
#7123 of 24723 Re: Oac [blckislandguy]
Dec 18, 2004 (9:17 pm)
It's a metaphor. I explained the thought by citing kdshapiro's comment. At least I think I did. No?