Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#7077 of 24726 Even the financial press notes reliability issues
Dec 15, 2004 (10:42 pm)
Question: what is this list?
A. Most admired cars
B. Motor Trend's Cars of the Year
C. Cars most preferred by driving enthusiasts
D. Most unreliable sedans made
MAKE MODEL Average Price
1 Mercedes-Benz S-Class $100,000
2 Jaguar S-Type 51,000
3 BMW 7 Series 94,000
4 Jaguar X-Type 33,000
5 Mercedes-Benz E-Class 64,000
6 Mercedes-Benz C-Class(V6) 40,000
7 Volvo S60 (AWD) 32,000
8 Saab 9-3 35,000
9 Pontiac Grand Prix¹ 25,000
10 Volkswagen Passat(AWD) 28,000
11 BMW 5 Series 58,000
Yep, it's "D". How sad, MB's top-of-the-line sedan is now more unreliable than the worst Jaguar, for which the joke was created "I love my Jag so much, I bought two: one to drive while the other is in the shop." And MB sedans hold 3 out of the top (bottom) 6 places.
The 12/13/04 Forbes (p.62) has an article headed "Over-Engineering 101: Seems that the fancier- and more European- the car, the less reliable it is". They note that YTD through October, 7 Series and S Class sales were down 19% and 12%, respectively, compared to 2003.
I guess the target market for these cars is now (1) people who can afford to buy 2 of them, and have full-time help that can take them to the shop for repairs-- or who don't work themselves so they are looking for something to do to get them out of their castles, and enjoy the all the trips back to the dealer; (2) people who don't read; and (3) people who can really appreciate the very slightly noticeable (at normal speed) better road handling, and don't care about the practicality. That's got to be a shrinking universe.
Dec 16, 2004 (12:10 pm)
Big surprise on the answer D. Though the german car fans will say it's a fluke again year after year. An E class for $64K get serious, the LS 430 will destroy that in quality, space and features and one can buy it for that. No way is this car better than the super high tech. 2005 Acura RL, 5 star safety all round 1st for a vehicle, and just made C&D 10 best list all for $50k. The RL interior just blows out any M.B. I've seen old or new. And that navi. is just the finest in the industry at the moment.
A while back on 5 series board someone had a hissy fit when I quesitoned BMW's 5 & 7 and most new M.B had bad reliability straight from C.R. latest report. Can't critize Bungle's latest basterdized offspring. Too bad I will lol.
On the next upcoming Lexus it will a deja vu all over again like 1989 according to my dealer. Another revolution coming. The V-12 rumour is not happening that would just be playing to the status quo of the others which Lexus will never do. Their being very secretive and have every reason to be, this car be a technology tour-de-force unlike any other Japanese or german competitor to date.
#7079 of 24726 Re: [sapparo]
Dec 16, 2004 (1:18 pm)
If you take a look at the recent "5 series sedans" postings, they are all rationalizing about how great the new 5 is-how it looks, how it drives. When I posted a question concerning the idrive/reliability issues, I was just ignored and they went right on praising each other about how lucky they all are to be able to spend 50 large on a BMW 5 series.
Dec 16, 2004 (1:23 pm)
That is an interesting interpetation on the thread.
Dec 16, 2004 (1:25 pm)
So...if the opinion differs from yours, that is rationalizing?
How a car looks and drives is not on topic, in the forum specified for that car?
If someone hasn't had a problem with reliability or idrive, does that mean they are avoiding your question?
Is being able to afford a $50K car a negative character trait?
If you don't like the new 5-series, fine.. but, what is your point?
#7082 of 24726 Re: [kdshapiro]
Dec 16, 2004 (1:26 pm)
Read them for yourself starting in the 9670's on that thread.
Dec 16, 2004 (1:28 pm)
If you want to see fawning and self-congratulation, check out the Acura RL or Lexus LS thread...
#7084 of 24726 Re: [hpowders]
Dec 16, 2004 (1:29 pm)
Your right. If I wanted to play Nintendo or X-Box I'd be home enjoying it not trying to figure how to use the radio or adjust the fan speed or AC controls. Just imagine how in demand these cars will once off warranty and sitting on Lexus and Infinti used car lots.
Dec 16, 2004 (1:32 pm)
No. You have me all wrong. I want to LOVE the new 5 series and am extemely angry at BMW because I CANNOT! Since I leased a 3 series in 2002, I have been looking forward to leasing a 530 or 545. I feel they took a perfect car and effectively ruined it. That's my opinion. Yours is different. Fine I respect that and I always enjoy reading your comments in particular. I just think that you guys are rationalizing-you are playing up the good points, but you cannot ignore the bad points because unfortunately for me and other BMW loyalists-there are just too many. You want to change a radio station-what should you do-get off the road? I'm sorry but that STINKS!
Dec 16, 2004 (1:37 pm)
See? That is how good the BMWs are.. Even though you hate the looks and idrive, you still can't find a better car...