Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#6969 of 24723 Re: Volkswagen Phaeton .. Dcowan699 .. [rroyce10]
Nov 21, 2004 (12:32 pm)
I didn't perceive you as knocking the Phaeton. Let me be more specific about the loss I had on the MB. The particular benz is a 2002 CL500 with AMG package, keyless go, comfort package, trunk closer. The car dropped quickly within the first few months (40000K). I had it appraised several times over the past 2 1/2 years and I never got the value Edmunds.com suggests. I was always quoted values of $10000.00 less than "good" condition for the car. I kept this car immaculate. I therefore kept it until just this week as I found this W12 and couldn't resist it. My boys are getting bigger and we needed a 4 door car again. Just this week the CL 500 was down $60000.00 since April 2002. Edmunds put it at $62000.00 wholesale and yet the dealers only offered between $43000.00 and $47000.00!!!!! 60% depreciation in only 2 1/2 years. It only has 31000 miles on it with almost new tires. Dealers and wholesalers both have told me this is one "cold" car. An S class may not have taken quite the hit. What is your thoughts?
#6970 of 24723 Re: Volkswagen Phaeton .. Dcowan699 .. [dcowan699]
Nov 21, 2004 (7:15 pm)
When I was researching MB's in 2001 I found that the E-class had the highest residual value after 3 years of any luxury car - about 67%. The S was a fairly close second - 65%. But those days are long over. Typically now - both lose nearly 50% of their value after 3 years and 36K miles. This is where the reliability and fear of faulty electronics is killing MB and its why the upfront premium pricing will not hold.
When I checked how residuals held up in 2004 I found the residuals in the low 50's for both the E and the S. So whoever bankrolled those 2001 leases with 65+% residuals built in got killed. The LS430 in 2001 residualized at 62% in the lease and about 63-64% in real world prices after 3 years. I checked all of this real closely when I leased earlier this year and concluded it was the reliability issues that were the causes and the rewards.
#6971 of 24723 Re: Volkswagen Phaeton .. Dcowan699 ..
Nov 22, 2004 (5:27 am)
**The particular benz is a 2002 CL500 with AMG package, keyless go, comfort package, trunk closer. The car dropped quickly within the first few months (40000K) .. **
Nice car.! - that said, you couldn't have picked a more "niche" vehicle .. depending on where you live, color, miles, condition, time of the year, etc, these can take a little bite .. lets face it, a C55 is not going to pull the Big Money in Milwaukee in January as it might pull in Atlanta or Dallas, but that will also be true of any expensive rwd coupe on the planet .....
Unless this thing has been miled out, caught in a 2 month blizzard and hit by a meteorite, then I can't see where you were getting the figures .... right now, the 02 super clean ones with miles in the 15/25k range, perfect paint, no Maaco are doing all of $60++ and on the Retail side, they will do all of $69 after the smoke clears ... where you have me lost is, the "01's" where doing the $60,0 region in the spring/summer of "03" and the "02's" were doing the $70,0+ and on the retail side, $79ish ... so you have me a little confused ....................
Nov 29, 2004 (6:01 pm)
Hey. Im interested in leasing a 2005 S430 4MATIC. I am also looking at the 2005 A8L and the 2005 Phaeton V8. They are all beautiful cars. Does anyone know what the deals are for the "Winter Dream Event" on the S Class (from mercedes)? Thanks a lot
#6973 of 24723 Seems to be a 'come on'
Nov 29, 2004 (7:58 pm)
When you go to the mbusa site you click around and can get 'offers' on the C and E. The S says says 'see your dealer' and we all know what that means.
Whatever you do, make sure you get the extended warranty and free Mercedes loaner service.
#6974 of 24723 Re: S430 4Matic [loslobos71]
Nov 30, 2004 (7:02 am)
Good news, bad news. First the good - I just got something from MB in the mail with a cover page that said there were special deals and incentives on the S-class (which I hear are not selling well right now) as well as the E and C class cars. I have seen S430 deals (generally $77K stickers) at $799 per month on a $12K lease deal with $2K down advertised (about a month ago) and 4-matic is no extra charge in 2005. So you should be able to get a great deal. Bad news - My wife threw the MB mail piece out before I looked at it.
Phaeton - $549-649 in NJ with 0 down and no lease application fee. Driveaway is basically your first months lease fee + Motor vehicle fees.
A8 - about 950 a month on a 12-15K mile lease with zero down. Someone I know is looking at one. I just forgot if the miles were 12 or 15K.
Good luck and be careful with that Phaeton. It may be on its last legs. Problem is it's the same car as the A8 pretty much so why pay 350-400 a month more? Plus the VW probably has the better lux ride. I've driven the Audi twice - once on a test and it was harsh and again on a 350 mile spin (less harsh but I just wasn't impressed as it lacks the lux ride of the Benz S or Lexus LS430). Finally Audi service by me is as bad as VW so that doesn't cut it for the extra bucks - at least not here.
Nov 30, 2004 (2:41 pm)
Thanks a lot guys. Yea i know it says "see dealer for details." i asked that question hoping that someone ALREADY went to the dealer and found out.
Yea i test drove all three. All VERY nice cars with their pros and cons.. My only concern about the phaeton is that it is a pain to get, service, etc. I actually test drove the cars in Florida over thanksgiving. The dealer in Pompano had the exact Phaeton i would get (Black/Black with the comfort package and technology package) with a decent deal... 2000$ down + inceptions at 800$ a month. He would deliver it to my (Philly) for like 350$. The nearest dealers to me dont have phaetons and i think that could be a problem if there is a problem. I also dont like the fact that i see SO few of them and that they may be "retired" at an early age.
Thanks for your help
#6976 of 24723 Re: [loslobos71]
Nov 30, 2004 (8:44 pm)
If you live in Philly pick-up the Newark Star Ledger and/or a NY or NJ edition of the NY Times this Sunday - if you are interested in the Phaeton. They are on a few lots here - one guy had 3 or 4 of them and advertised a $499 a month zero down deal a few weeks back. He's now at $549. Dealers do everything they can to avoid them because they sell so slowly but at the current prices I think they are a steal, particularly on a lease where you don't need to worry about future value. Ray Catena MB in Edison NJ on Rt 1 (a huge MB dealer) was the advertiser on the $799 S430 deal. He runs some great deals on the Cayenne also and even on the 911, the latter at just under a grand a month. He's had some good deals advertised on S500's as well - so good that I just stared at them in amazement given the prices I was seeing in 2001. He has any and every MB you want at virtually any time.
Dec 01, 2004 (2:06 pm)
Thanks a lot. Im going to look into that now!
#6978 of 24723 Car & Driver 10 Best
Dec 06, 2004 (3:47 pm)
I see am not alone in singing the praises of the new 2005 Acura RL. It topped C&D's list of best luxury sedans.
C&D writes, "The arrival of the RL marks the end of Acura's inferiority complex...and the ultra-quiet interior combines typical Acura ergonomic good sense with all the hedonistic features you'd expect in a first class sedan."
Yesterday I saw a gentleman driving the RL with a permanent smile on his face. I couldn’t tell if he was rehearsing for a Levitra TV commercial or if he was just soaking in the the total satisfaction of driving the RL.