Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#6881 of 24726 Re: So ... the Mercedes E320 isn't a true luxury car [footie]
Oct 19, 2004 (6:03 pm)
footie - I'm comparing top end Acura (Legend before, RL now) to the S-class, LS430, 7-series, A8 etc. That's where it falls short. Most certainly it can compare and compete with the E, GS, 5-series etc. I had 91 and 93 Legends (wasn't the Legend bigger body new style a 91 model and before that it was the smaller boxier car?) and loved them both. Exceptionally reliable cars. Like my 1995 LS430, the 93 Legend I had was eventually sold to a friend who put more than 250K trouble free miles on it before "totalling" it. My 95 LS400 which is in the hands of another friend (both of these guys are travelling sales people) will reach 300K miles by year end (mainly highway) and is still a great car. The Japanese know how to build them - that's for sure.
#6882 of 24726 Re: Buzzing BMW [scottphillip]
Oct 19, 2004 (6:36 pm)
Unfortunately that may be the best we can do. Sure is cheaper than service costs.
#6883 of 24726 Acura is knocking on the door of the future with this RL
Oct 20, 2004 (4:56 am)
"I'm comparing top end Acura (Legend before, RL now) to the S-class, LS430, 7-series, A8 etc. That's where it falls short."
If power is a priority then sure it falls short. But it's right up there with luxury amenities. Pure luxury starts with plush, cushy, quiet, rife with features. On the high end throw in enough room for people who've had one Sicilian slice too many. It's there and power is adequate. It gets the short end of the stick because we are in the throes of a power war and consciousness.
Keep an eye on this new AWD system. AWD is nothing new but regardless it is still in it's infancy. What will distinguish it in the future is performance. The real legacy of electronics in cars is performance-enhancing electronics. In the animal kingdom four-legged creatures outperform their two-legged counterparts by a wide margin. The task for engineers is to figure out how to efficiently apply and optimize power to four wheels in a similar manner, a fairly complex collaboration among engineering disciplines and one which does not lend itself to immediacy. But when people start to notice AWD in warm climates you'll know it has really arrived. The RL could be the first of significant steps forward in this area. This is an innovative move.
As much as I consider the RL a high end luxury car, I will admit wondering why Acura doesn't answer the V8 call just on the principle of demand which I believe starts with bandwagon luxury buyers buying into the beating the RL relentlessly takes on this issue in the press. Too much attention is paid to categories. But it could behoove them financially if they just acquiesce, losing the tweener image in the process and beating the "big boys" at their own game. They certainly appear have the ability and marketing savvy but with the RL and NSX you have to scratch your head at times.
#6884 of 24726 Market for V8 is small
Oct 20, 2004 (7:12 pm)
No one really 'wants' a V8, even though lots of people get 'sold' a V8.
V8's are history. They really aren't needed and with gas headed towards European pricing, who the heck wants to pay more (unless you really are a GWB birdbrain) to get the same as what you can get with a V6.
#6885 of 24726 Re: Market for V8 is small [footie]
Oct 21, 2004 (4:58 am)
Saying a V6 can get you a V8, is like saying a turbo 4 is exactly the same as V6. Nobody *really* needs a V6 either. And with gas heading toward Europeans pricing, only the wealthy will be able to afford the gas for a V6.
#6886 of 24726 I'll take my sixes straight...
by kyfdx@Edmunds HOST
Oct 21, 2004 (6:16 am)
No V-6s for me, thanks..
#6887 of 24726 Re: Market for V8 is small [footie]
Oct 21, 2004 (7:15 am)
If you can't afford the gas then you shouldn't buy an Ultra Lux car.
If you can afford the gas but think it is your civic or moral duty to own a more fuel efficent car buy a hybred.
I want a V8...The wonderfull thing is I live in American where I can get one...and There is a difference between a V8 and 6...No matter the HP.
A proud GWB Compassionate Conservative.
#6888 of 24726 Market for a V8
Oct 21, 2004 (7:38 am)
Lot’s of creative thinking going on of late. First Mercedes is not a high-end marque, then V8’s are history. In another thread someone said the Cayenne outperforms the Boxster S and yet another that there is no such thing as car platforms. Next thing you know someone is going to say the curse is over and the Sox will win the WS. How’s this for a creative concept on a day when New York is undergoing a reality check… go Jets!
#6889 of 24726 Re: Market for a V8 [designman]
Oct 21, 2004 (7:45 am)
Hmm. V8s maybe history, but there is a healthy market for V10s and V12s. I'll take my V8 without salt thank you.
Good thing the Yanks won.
Oct 21, 2004 (11:14 am)
Don't include me on your list. Once you have a V8 that's what you want. Don't know where you get your data from but everyone I know wants a V8 in a premium lux sedan. It's one of the reasons I stopped buying Acuras. You could feel the difference between a Legend and an LS400 within seconds of stepping on the gas. On top of that there isn't much difference between the MPG I get in an LS430 and what a 6cyl ES330 gets. If gas price goes up another 40% (Europe gas itself is actually cheaper than here because of the weak dollar - worldwide oil is priced in the US dollar not in local currency - it's taxes that are the problem there) what's the big deal to a lux car buyer. He'll pay an extra $600 more annually on a car that sells for $60K+ and leases for a nearly a grand or more a month. It's simply not an issue and unless there is an illegal coalition by the auto mfrs or a worldwide government action there will always be plenty of demand for V8's. When the hybrids arrive your gas mileage argument really becomes a thing of the past and power will be all the more the rage. Lexus is already planning a real powerful V8 hybrid in 2006/7 that will rival current V12's and get 50 mpg.