Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Feb 22, 2001 (7:25 am)
I have a 1999 XJ8, and to be honest, I would disagree with the gentleman recommending the 6 cylinder over the 8 cylinder engine. First of all, b/c of the interior-I found the 6 cylinder interior to be kind of busy and difficult to follow, especially while driving, whereas the redesign in 1998 made the dash considerably more streamlined. Also, the recommended maintainence interval on the 8's is every 10,000 miles, and was 7500 miles on the xj6's. I usually keep my cars until they absolutely die, which is well past their warranty period, and as Jaguar's are expensive cars to service, one less trip to the service department for every 30,000 miles is easier on the wallet-especially after the warranty goes down. Next, in 1998, jag came out with side airbags, which I don't believe they had in the 6cylinders. I have no idea whether this should be a purchase consideration or not, as Jag's are pretty safe in the first place, but it's nice insurance. Finally, in comparing the XJ6, I can't really attest to their reliability, but I can say that I haven't had a single problem with my XJ8 and I average about 23mpg on mostly highway driving-and I'm pretty sure that the 6 cylinders isn't as good as mine, as one of the gentleman in my practice has a 1996 6 cylinder and was shocked with my fuel economy. If you can afford it, and I know there's a pretty big difference in price btween the 6's and 8's, I'd really go with the 8.
#652 of 24723 merc1
Feb 22, 2001 (7:50 am)
I know what you meant, just poking at you a bit. I agree, even the upgraded systems in the new Porsches are a joke. They apply technology to other priorities like power and handling, Germanic priorities, that is why I have one!
I also have test driven all of these cars and then some. Our first foray into luxo cars was a '95 740iL, not without its problems, but gorgeous to look at and splendid to drive. I looked at the LS400 (used) and the new LS430. I drove both, in the same weekend I drove the 740,750,S430,S500 and A8. I am impressed by the Lexus for quality, smoothness and service reputation. It's no secret that I prefer the M-B and BMW. The one that surprised me was the A8, very well equipped and the nicest interior of the bunch. The reputation of questionable quality kept me away, along with the prospect of repairing a damaged aluminum bodied car. I also would challenge the Lexus fans to take out the M-B and BMW for aggressive drives, this will reveal with no uncertainty the advantages of the German designs. The Lexus may be quiet, well equipped, and reliable, but it simply does not drive like a BMW. Like before I think it comes down to prorities, I like a responsive, virile machine, if I want to relax I use the couch in my living room. I also think it is foolish to suggest that M-B and BMW are in trouble financially and may not be able to compete. That is awfully far fetched, and certainly premature. Niether is floundering or lacking direction, they are the leaders, the innovaters, I have no doubt they will survive and flourish.
Feb 22, 2001 (8:05 am)
I (prematurely??) put on my spring/summer/fall 18" wheels and tires onto my MB S500. WOW! The car handles incredibly, without the slightly harsher ride of the 740iL sport (I have a bad back and am very sensitive to this). I have test driven an LS430 (with Eurotuned suspension and 17" wheels and tires), and there is no comparison (especially with the MB's adjustable suspension). I still hink that the LS is unparalled when it comes to interior "sumptuousness", but I guess it depends on what you are looking for.
The only other area where Lexus blew it and is way behind is in the integration of a digital and voice activated telephone system (don't even try to defend the Lexus/Sprint telephone which Lexus is actually offering to buy back from customers.
Unfortunately, in all this talk of Lexus technical superiority, Lexus owners fail to give any credit where it is due.
#654 of 24723 blehrlich
Feb 22, 2001 (9:54 am)
You struck cord there. I find myself making concessions towards Lexus' for their accomplishments which are impressive. Yet the Lexus fans seem unwilling to acknowledge the stregnths of the German brands.
Feb 22, 2001 (10:18 am)
Toyota has no intention of acquiring ANY other car company, including D/C, GM or anybody else. However, they certainly have the financial means to do so -- they're the only ones who do -- and the information I included in my previous post came from the British newsletter I receive weekly; it's not something I made up just to irritate you (although it obviously does).
arcoates: On the off-chance that you may still be monitoring this topic, allow me to comment on one of your last posts. Re your comment that "I am sorry, but I would take the Jaguar over the Lexus anyday because the Jaguar has a sense of heritage," I respect your love and respect for the marque -- all of us here feel that cars are much more than just sheetmetal and plastic -- but the intangible you describe is totally personal and non-quantifiable. It is also unfortunate that you take such a strong position on a car you've never driven, such as the LS430 (or any Lexus, for that matter). If handling is your preference, you might want to try the GS400 -- an awesome car with startling performance and handling. If you like a svelte sense of style with your performance, may I recommend the new SC430 -- it has the lovely combination of style, luxury and performance normally personified by Jaguar.
#656 of 24723 georget3
Feb 22, 2001 (5:48 pm)
I did not look at the BMW 740. Neither I nor my wife like its style and too many people we know had problems with their BMW's and told us to stay away from them. All of those people, like those on this board, raved about the engineering, but complained bitterly about the breakdowns.
We did however seriouly evaluate the A-8 quattro, the E-430 4matic - both because of the obvious all wheel drive - and the S430 and S500. We weren't all that impressed with the A-8 and the E-430 was just too small for us though looks wise this was our favorite.
We really wanted to move away from Lexus because we've had LS-400's in 1995 and again in 1998 - both of which were flawless - and wanted a change. We were very impressed with the S-500 but couln't stand the interior and found the stereo very disappointing. The handling was great but the ride and quietness was not in the Lexus league. The S-430 was'nt powerful enough. If we were goint to go MB it was going to be an S-500. When we finally went to test it against the LS430 we both looked at each other and knew it was still the car for us. But you will not here me knockdown the S-500 - it's a truly great and beautifully styled car. However where it edges out the LS430 is not important to us. We won't drive it the way you noted and prefer the quiet cabin, great ride and wonderful interior. We could'nt possibly take advantage of superior handling because most of the time we have 2 kids in the car including a 2 1/2 year old. I also don't see people on the road driving it the way you say you do. They take turns the same way I do - yes I see the brake lights go on - and I see many people driving 55mph in the right lane.
#657 of 24723 44264
Feb 22, 2001 (5:54 pm)
I find the brakes are excellent, the handling is more than I need and as yet no one has passed out in the backseat. The backseat passengers actually are very complimentary about the car. Your problem seems to be the exception, not the rule. I also have a hard time believing it.
#658 of 24723 complaints about the LS430
Feb 22, 2001 (6:24 pm)
I suppose we have different standards, with mine being more on the performance side.
The problem with the LS brakes I find, is its lack of response when first applied, lack of brake feel- your brakes are either on or off, if you know what I mean. I would not enjoy pushing the LS to its limit unlike the GS, S-class, 7-series or A8.
As a true 'back seat' luxury car, I find the S-class (stretched version) and 7-series (L wheel base) much roomier, the LS is simply too tight.
I like the quietness in the LS, although as mentioned, the soft suspension causing the excessive roll was not pleasant at all in the back...
#659 of 24723 44264
Feb 22, 2001 (7:04 pm)
You must have a chaffeur at least some of the time. My boss feels that way about his A-8 which is always driven by his chaffeur. By the way I did not know The S-class had a stretched version.
Let me clarify one other thing. When I say that my wife & I couldn't stand the S-Class interior it wasn't intended to mean it was shoddy. We both felt that it could be made more luxurious -paticularly given the cars price - but what I meant was MB's functional layout left a lot to be desired - particularly vs. that of Lexus which is so well thought out.
It's nice to see your a gentleman.
Last thing - don't know where your from but if you come to New York and take a taxi you'll find out what real "body roll" is.
Feb 22, 2001 (7:04 pm)
I appreciate your adding additional comments to our discussion of Jaguar motorcars.
I tend to agree with you that the XJ8 is probably an improvement over the "the old workhorse" engine of the XJ6, but may be more a matter of taste (dashboard configuration, etc., engine hp, etc.).
The safety issue is always one for me. I do think that the addition of side air bags increases ones protection in what is an otherwise quite safe vehicle.
Thanks for confirming the reliability of the Jag.
In the public mind this seems to be a caveat.
One further note, you say you drive them "till they collapse". Have you ever purchased an "extended warrenty" to cover what could be costly repairs? If so, what company have you found provided the best coverage and was the most reliable?
Any other purchase or ownership advice ?