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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 651 of 2473

#6497 of 24723 Re: michael_mattox [michael_mattox] by merc1

Jul 31, 2004 (4:34 am)

Replying to: michael_mattox (Jul 30, 2004 8:29 am)
Mike I'm going to do this point by point so you don't get any more confused.
 
"When I talked about 250 HP that was for Pre 1993...Since I am sticking to comparing 93 Allante to 93 SL500 in order to try and avoid your dancing around issues by switching between models and year."
 
Ok pre-1993, you mean from the 1987-1992 models right? The 500SL came out for 1990 Mike and it had a 322hp DOHC V8. Fact. It outperformed any pre or post Northstar Allante quite easily. Fact. The 1993 500SL had the same engine as the 1990, 1991, and 1992 models, why this is so hard for you to grasp is beyond me. The 500SL later renamed (along with all Mercedes) the SL500 was the SAME CAR from 1990-2002. My point is that the R129 SL (the chassis code) for the V8 engined 500SL/SL500 from 1990-2002 would outperform any year Allante you'd care to mention. You really can't understand this?
 
There is no dancing from model years to do here, the 500SL/SL500 was the same car for 13 MY years (1990-2002)!
 
"Support for the Allante...There was a young man who wrote about his fathers Allante and how much he liked it.
 
Wow, and the car got cancelled anyway. Find a knowledgeable source the put the 500SL over the Allante and then post. People can like whatever they want, obviously. Doesn't mean they have a clue about the vehicle.
 
No one here agrees with you about the Allante being superior to the SL. An owner of just then Allante (and not having even driven the SL like you haven't) doesn't qualify as an expert to anyone but themsleves. The industry put the SL at the top of the class then as they do now. If Edmund's editors said anything like what you're saying about the Allante and previous SL it obviously goes in the "what were they thinking" tank with Motor Trend naming the 1991 Chevy Caprice their "car of the year". A completely off-base view and not supported by any other automotive source. That alone tells you that it was a mistake.
 
"At to the sales numbers in the US...the Mercedes SL500 sold a little less then 800 and the Allante sold 6700...Your figures made my point...Prior to 93 I don't believe there was an SL500. But with Mercedes funky way of labeling their cars ...Who knows and for this comparison it really doesn't matter."
 
Where do you get this stuff? Didn't you read the link I gave you? The 500SL/SL500 (since you can't seem to understand it is the same car) sold 1721 units in 1993. Fact. Again the numbers:
 
Model
Year U.S. Sales
1990 2,830
1991 6,061
1992 5,355
1993 1,721
1994 3,118
1995 4,721
 
My source for this is MBSUSA.COM, please give your source for the 800 units you say MB sold for 1993. Otherwise I'll go by the what the people who sold the car says. These are U.S. sales not worldwide sales and it says that clear as day. Are you saying that MBUSA is lying?
 
"Prior to 93 I don't believe there was an SL500
 
OMG. Prior to 1993 there was a 500SL which was merely renamed the SL500 along with every other Mercedes, it was the same exact car.
 
"I still haven't been able to determine the performance figures for the 1993 500SL ...Yes I did look at the chart by it doesn't give the year of the car on the chart that shows 0-60 times.
 
Wait a minute, you looked at the chart for the performance numbers but you didn't look up above (on the same chart) to see the sales numbers only to come back and fabricate this 800 units in the US for sales?
 
When you read "the chart" you didn't see this:
 
"Body Style 129, Introduced to U.S. Fall 1989, Name changed to SL500 in Fall 1993."
 
It clearly states this at the bottom of the sales numbers. If this doesn't clear up the naming and model year confusion for you then it is hopeless. It was the same car from 1990-2002!
 
Like I said before when I get time I'll look through the mags and find the comparo.
 
M

#6498 of 24723 Warning to Vampires by designman

Jul 31, 2004 (7:29 am)

Merc, sun's up... you could lose your immortality.
 
Hey, what's with the mood swings in those SL numbers? I think I noticed the same post '95. Must be a fickle roadster factor.

#6499 of 24723 Re: [lenscap] by hjcanter

Jul 31, 2004 (7:37 am)

Replying to: lenscap (Jul 29, 2004 11:37 am)
Audi in first place! I can't wait to read the article. I recently placed an order on a SWB A8, so I am giving up 5" of legroom. No need to drive the limo! Lot's of space anyway.

#6500 of 24723 Re: michael_mattox [merc1] by michael_mattox

Jul 31, 2004 (8:23 am)

Replying to: merc1 (Jul 31, 2004 4:34 am)
Merc:
 
You say FACT is outperformes the 93 Allante...What are the Numbers...Lets see them.
 
You say lets compare any year Allante to the 500SL...OK...Compare the 93 500SL to the 93 Allante...LETS SEE THE NUMBERS...LETS SEE A LINK
 
In your previous post the chart showed 700+ units and you said that was US sales???? I accept 1700+ for the SL500....Allante sold 6700 in 93
 
WHAT ARE THE PERFORMANCE NUMBERS FOR THE 93 SL500/500SL????? LESS TALK AND MORE SHOW PLEASE...
 
P.S the chart I looked at for the SL did not specify model years as I have already said in previous messages. OR...I did not know how to read the chart.
 
AGAIN..WHAT ARE THE PERFORMANCE NUMBERS FOR THE 93 SL500 OR 500SL WHATEVER.

#6502 of 24723 by maxhonda99

Jul 31, 2004 (2:08 pm)

michael_mattox:
 
Except for mechanical quality, your link shows, the Allante is not that great for Body & INterior quality.
 
I don't know man, you keep asking Merc1 to bring up facts about the SL being better than the Allante. But you know what? I don't see much facts from you either. Links to reviews from both cars would be good. Better yet, the SL vs. Allante would be good. The Edmunds link doesn't tell all that much except the Allante's Body & INterior quality stank.

#6503 of 24723 Re: [maxhonda99] by michael_mattox

Jul 31, 2004 (2:14 pm)

Replying to: maxhonda99 (Jul 31, 2004 2:08 pm)
Max:
 
At least you have seen some facts from me....Apparently you looked at just the figures you wanted to ....It is the over 5 year figures that matter and you are obviously discussing something else.
 
P.S. the Allante figures were almost exactly the same as the $100,000 500SLs numbers...My point was that all this Mercedes built like a tank stuff from Merc. was a little overboard at least compared to Allante.

#6504 of 24723 by maxhonda99

Jul 31, 2004 (2:36 pm)

michael,
 
The tank like stuff is not overboard. Even when the C5 Corvette Convertible came out, every magazine was comparing it's solidity level to the SL500s, which was considered up until recently the benchmark for convertible solidity.
 
The JD power mechanical quality or interior ratings say nothing about solidity.

#6505 of 24723 Re: [maxhonda99] by michael_mattox

Jul 31, 2004 (5:54 pm)

Replying to: maxhonda99 (Jul 31, 2004 2:36 pm)
Max
 
JDPOWER
 
4-5 yrs. Allante
 
Mechanical Dependability 5 out of 5 (SL was the same)
 
Body & Interior 3 out of 5 (SL was 4 out of 5)
 
Feature and Accessory 4 out of 5 (SL was the same)
 
I owned my Allante for over 11 years It was tight as a drum when I sold it. (only had 79,000 miles on it.) Because I owned one and Because most people are not very familiar with them there is a lot of mis-information about them.
 
The 93 was the fastest front wheel drive car in the world but not as fast as the modified XJR-15 which sold for 1 million and went 0-60 in 4.5 seconds.
 
I still think the Allante is far more beautifull then the SL...The Allante actually still looks fresh and a look at the 93 SL makes it's age obvious.
 

#6506 of 24723 by kdshapiro

Jul 31, 2004 (6:23 pm)

Unfortunately the Allante is ugly, those old Mercedes/BMWs are the benchmarks of luxury cars for their time period.

Messages Page 651 of 2473

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