Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#6388 of 24726 michael_mattox
Jul 27, 2004 (9:37 pm)
Like I said you didn't even drive the R129 1990 SL that you've tried to state was inferior to the Allante! You never even drove the the 1990+ 500SL! The 380 and 450SL models were from another era and were severly dated by the time the 560SL came out in 1986 to see the platform out.
"I don't recall the HP in the 93 Allante but it was around 300 with the Northstar system and outperformed every SL around in those days. "
Do you seriously believe such things that you post? I have never read anything so incorrect and so out of touch with reality. You haven't a clue or you choose to ignore the facts because this even subjective. The 322hp 500SL outperformed the 1993 Northstar Allante. Have you not read anything? I won't mention the 389hp 600SL that would easily smoke the Allante. Read what Car and Driver said about the 500SL in that comparo in which the Allante beat a mere I6 powered 300SL. The 500SL would smoke the Allante and the V12 600SL would stomp a mutthole in the Allante.
I couldn't care less about any golf clubs while driving a underpowered fwd SL wannabe. The Allante had a powertrain of junk (a 200hp V8!) until 1993 and by then it was too late, nobody cared. Plugging a chip in a car is for the fast and furious set, not a 60K luxury convertible buyer. AMG would modify the R129 SL to do 200 mph if you wanted so whats the point.
Like I said before everything you say about the Allante's top is a grand excuse for a pitifully designed top on a 60K car. A 20K Pontiac Sunbird of the day had a power top!!!
"You will need to print your source (cut and paste) for the speculative information you have cited...the survays were positive as I recall...It is difficult to find them now so if you would care to cut and paste something in to prove your point that would be a good thing.."
So you do understand the concept of proof. Good. I have a list of your bogus claims you have yet to prove in over a year of stating them! Shall we? I'm still waiting to find out if the Allante had a "shoulder harness".
On Cadillac and Mercedes back in the day say like 1990-1993 ask any of the survey chasers here about where each brand stood. I bet you won't like where Cadillac stood relative to Mercedes, who led the things. Where do you think all this fall from grace and drop-in-quality talk came from concerning Mercedes?
"They sold 20,000 Allante's between 1987 and 1993 the production run for the car...The last year had the highest sales with about 6700 sold as I recall."
Wow! In 7 model years they sold 20K units. Whooptie-doo. The 500SL alone (not even counting the 300SL and 600SL) sold 23806 units (mbusa.com) in just six model years from 1990 to 1995 at a much higher price than Cadillac dared dreaming of charging for the junker Allante. No matter which way you try to spin it the SL, specifically the 500SL slaughtered the Allante. Some enduring quality the car was cancelled because of it.
#6389 of 24726 michael_mattox
Jul 27, 2004 (10:00 pm)
You might as well give up bud, you're not going to win this one. Those guys in their SLs were probably more amused at your Allante than feeling pity for you. The Jag XJS's 4.0L V6 of the time outpowered Cadillac's V8, and it had a proper power top, and RWD. Cadillac was not ready to play hardball in those days. They basically just wanted to be better than the joke that was\is Lincoln, and that was about it. The Allante was a half-assed effort at the big leagues, and it failed, just as the Catera did, and all of the other times Cadillac phoned it in. It appears they've learned their lesson, but it was the CTS that marked the first time Cadillac could be mentioned along side Mercedes and BMW without inducing snickering.
Jul 27, 2004 (10:06 pm)
What I truly can't understand is how one that obviously appreciates quality (a LS430 owner) could come up with so much bs to cover such an ill-conceived car like an Allante.
The industry that praised the first LS400 of the day is right but they're wrong in slamming the Allante of the same time frame to the forgetten land of GM's worst screw ups. What a double standard.
Is this your "enthusiast" side Mike? Meaning you're apt to overlook certain things for a car that you thought delivered unrivaled driving pleasure? Never thought of it like that even though some of the stuff you're coming up with for the Allante wouldn't be forgiven by anyone then or now. Hence the car's demise on the market.
#6391 of 24726 Re: ljflx [merc1]
Jul 28, 2004 (3:52 am)
"Reading some of their posts its obvious they don't have a clue as to what a Mercedes was or is about today." What a Mercedes was or is about? You act like it's a person or something..geez...it's a car. A Mercedes has always been about prestige and since it's a car, getting from Point A to B in style.
"The same could also be said about the Lexus owners who talk down about Audi and BMWs, most of them wouldn't and haven't gone near one to even know what they're talking about. Especially the Audi detractors." Honestly I don't see a whole lot of this, I don't know where you get this from. It seems more like a Lexus basher comes into play and then when the Lexus lover defends Lexus, all of a sudden he becomes a BMW, Audi, or Mercedes basher without that person even saying anything about BMW, Audi, or Mercedes.
"What you and other Lexi never seem to get is that nobody is saying the S500 is a "drivers car" in the purest sense, only that it is more of a drivers car than a LS430."
Yet, you always make it out to seem like the S-class is soo much of a better performer than the LS430.
Jul 28, 2004 (3:54 am)
I don't get the Allante thing. That thing was a joke for it's price point, and personally no competition to the MB SL.
#6393 of 24726 Re: [maxhonda99]
Jul 28, 2004 (4:18 am)
My Dad has an Allante and it is not that bad of a car. Yes, it not the best package, but a fun touring car. The top is easy to put down and the storage space inside the car and the trunk is great. My parents can take two sets of golf clubs and luggage for trips. You can not do that with the new SL or the SC. Very little problems as well.
Jul 28, 2004 (4:33 am)
I'm not saying it was a bad car. But for the money it was low quality. Back in the early 90s or something they were selling the Allante for about $50K and it had shoddy quality, a poor fitting top, and originally it was powered by that weezy pushrod 200bhp 4.9L V8.
And to compare it to a $80-$90K Mercedes SL is ridiculous. The Mercedes may not have been perfect in terms of reliability, but it was built like a rock, was as solid as a rock, had timeless looks(it still looks great today), and simply, the SL was in a totally different league. Allante vs. SL500/SL320 is a pointless comparison.
#6395 of 24726 Re: michael_mattox [lexusguy]
Jul 28, 2004 (6:47 am)
I always love the Jag..Sadly I did not fit in it either. You are just plain wrong about the Allante.
Jul 28, 2004 (7:37 am)
Your style seems to be to jump from one model year/or model to another to make your point...So lets get real specific. Information all taken from Edmonds. FACTS ARE A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE!
1993 Allante vrs 1993 SL 500
The Mercedes weighed in at 4165............Allante 3766
HP...315 and 347 ft. lbs...................295 and 290 ft. lbs.
NOTE: The Allante power plant is pushing 400 lbs less.
JD Powers Reliability ratings: Long Term ratings (over 5 yrs.)
Mechanical 5/5.........................Allante 5/5
Body and Interior 4/5..........................3/5
Feature and accessory 4/5......................4/5
Note: The first 90 days and mid term ratings are not as favorable to Mercedes.
Trunk space 7.9 Cu. Ft........................16cu.ft.
Note: The Allante also has substantual cargo space on a shelf behind the seats. (enough for two big suit cases)
NOTE: What is the value of a car that you cannot even take you golf clubs to the country club in...That you can't take a weeks vacation in because you can't carry your luggage. Lord, I don't know what you could do in thing other then "Cruse The Ave"
Jul 28, 2004 (7:48 am)
I don't think the Allante and SL ever really competed in the same segment. The Allante was clearly a class below. When I was shopping for a lux convertible, I briefly considered the Allante, but decided it was too much money. I never een contemplated the SL, because it was much more expensive.
I should mention that at that time, when I moved to the USA from Europe, I actually wanted to buy an American car. I was very favorabl disposed to buy Detroit iron. Alas, nothing I saw drove felt right. The Japanese offering oddly seemed to offer the qualities associated with USA cruising - a certain overall softness and relaxed engines. I got an Infiniti, but I was very underwhelmed with its build quality: terrible. I have never seen a car age so badly within a year and a half.