Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Feb 21, 2001 (12:11 pm)
Personally, I would opt for the XJ6. There wasn't a huge improvement switching from the I6 to the V8. To compare, the I6 had 245 bhp, and 289 ft.lb. of torque. The V8 has 290 bhp, and 290 ft.lb. of torque. So, in day to day driving, where torque is more important, they are equal.
The body styles are nearly identical, the XJ6's will be cheaper, interiors almost the same (I prefer the XJ6 interior design to the XJ8 actually). The XJ8's will come with more standard equipment, but any Jag buyer would load it to the gills anyway.
We got our XJ6 used, as you will, and it had the "Select Jaguar Warranty" I think it's called. It's whatever Jaguar gives to it's used cars, that's the name. And it pretty much covers everything.
I would say go for a 1996-97 XJ6. It's always better not to buy the first year of a car. I would also say to go for the Vanden Plas, as the rear-seat room in the standard wheelbase is pitiful.
As for the reliability problems, Ford had owned Jaguar for a number of years when these models came out, and they worked out most of the bugs.
They are great cars to buy used. The mileage isn't really an issue, since the engines are engineered to high standards. I'd say somewhere in the 60,000m range.
I think you will be happy with either an XJ6 or an XJ8, but I would advise to go for the XJ6. Better fuel economy, and not much of a difference from the V8. Good luck.~ A.R>
Feb 21, 2001 (2:35 pm)
You diss Lexus for their emphasis on ride and tranquillity and recommend the Jag? Come one now. The Jaguar has far less of the driving dynamic you say you love in the German makes. It's a soft, luxurious car in the British tradition -- and it's showing its age. Check out the latest comparison test in Auto World Weekly -- the Jag came out on the bottom for a whole host of reasons, including lack of power.
As for bwh's comment that "The companies financial statement means nothing to me. Buying a Lexus based on their bottom line seems beside the point, the car is not an investment," I believe he missed the point. What ljflx was saying is that by following a sound business plan, Lexus will always have the necessary capital to meet the market head-on, whereas Mercedes is already in trouble because of its disastrous handling of the D/C merger and Mitsu buy-out. D/C's stock went up following the rumor (some say floated by D/C executive staff) that Toyota was thinking about buying them out. What does that tell you?
Feb 21, 2001 (3:34 pm)
I am sorry, but I would take the Jaguar over the Lexus anyday because the Jaguar has a sense of heritage. That plays an important role in my decision making as well. And the Jaguar is not soft- it is not as stiff as the German cars, but when called upon it performs admirably. There is definately a difference between a BMW and Jaguar, but it is still a luxury-sport sedan. I would say the Lexus is a pure luxury car. Jaguar goes to the effort to tune their cars, and give them R designation. XJR, XKR etc...
And also, the lady of the house is the primary driver of the Jaguar and she primarily wanted it for it's curb appeal. She's a women- you can't blame her. If she had asked for a Lexus, the answer would definately be no. The Jaguar still ranks higher than the Lexus.~ A.R.
#639 of 24726 Denniswade
Feb 21, 2001 (5:50 pm)
Thanks. The moves of today will determine the cars (and prices)of tommorrow. Heritage is relevant in living things not cars. Both MB and BMW are in trouble right now. If MB mishandles Chrysler any further they will slide very fast. The car enthusiasts will notice the difference in quality in say 2004 or so. Toyota is in an unbelievably strong financial position and the fact that the LS430 is such a hit solidifies their market power all the more.
Merc1 - Regardless of who deploys new technology first the other guy usually is there within a year. So I hardly think it matters who gets there first. But if MB is not going to share platforms or technology then why the heck did it buy Chrysler? That deployment is what is making Toyota so solid right now. By the way the worst dream MB can have is to see luxury technology deployed in everyday Toyotas before they have it.
#640 of 24726 arcaotes
Feb 21, 2001 (5:54 pm)
Your passion overcomes common sense. I admire it but would never trust your opinion. Have you ever driven a Lexus LS430? Do you have any clue how great a car it is??
Feb 21, 2001 (6:43 pm)
No ljflx, I admit I have not. I will be totally up front and say that my knowledge about the LS is what I have read and surmised on my own.
I agree with you that I would never trust my opinion on Japanese cars because I have no first-hand knowledge of those cars, but you would be wrong not to trust me about European cars. My passion guarantees my informed opinion. You may not like it, but I am far from ignorant.
As for giving out my advice, you have no business second-guessing me about my Jaguar knowledge in particular because I acutally have one, and know what it is like to live with this car. I too purchased it used, like the person who is posing the questions. So I have even more insight into his line of questioning.
Some may say I am offensive, but you sir/ma'am are just plain rude and disrespectful. I may attack cars, but have never launched a personal assault against someone. There is a fine line between agressively discussing cars and then offending someone. You should investigate in getting some manners!~ A.R.
#642 of 24726 Arcoates
Feb 21, 2001 (7:19 pm)
I never said a word about the Jaguar. So you must be imagining things. I wouldn't critique something that I haven't evaluated directly. But I do find it interesting that you can critique something you haven't ever experienced but get offended that someone else would pull the same thing on you -- even though in this case I didn't.
I've not ridden in a Jag but do admire their looks. But I will tell you my next door neighbor had a lot of problems with his and could'nt wait to get out of his lease.
If you're going to be really be serious about this why don't you take an LS430 out for a test drive? You'll be amazed if you're really honest with yourself.
I did say I admire your passion and enthusiasm. But I absolutely do not trust your opinion. Sorry if you are offended by that.
Feb 21, 2001 (7:54 pm)
That's it- I'm out. I thought this would be a fun thing to do- sit around and chew the fat about the automobiles that I love. Discuss, disagree, learn- have a good time with knowledgeable people.
Instead, I have been shown up by some of the ultimate authorities on high-end luxury models. The most learned, brilliant people to ever walk this earth.
So I humbly bow out. Good luck all enquirers, because you are talking to the best of the best here. And I always thought America was the land of the free...~ A.R.
#644 of 24726 arcaotes
Feb 21, 2001 (8:04 pm)
Went back and read my posts and don't see why your feelings are so hurt. But I missed something that you said. In your post 632 you say "she's a woman - you can't blame her". You make a comment like that and you have the nerve to tell me I'm disrespectful and have no manners. As someone posted earlier - you seem to be very unsure of your ground and your irrationality proves it.
Feb 21, 2001 (9:33 pm)
Leonard, I understand that you're a Lexus fan, a die-hard LS430 defender. And you are not alone, there are many more like you out there. I almost traded in my 740IL for a LS430 a month ago. I like many things that you praise so well about it. I tested driving it seriously two different times. To me, the LS drive very good until I did some turning and cornering. Coming from being a 740IL driver, I felt very disappointed. I did not feel the excitement that I have while I tested MB S500. Guess what, I traded my BMW for a beautiful silver/charcoal S500. And I have loved every bit of it. I wonder if you've ever driven a BMW or S class? If you have, I'd love to hear your opinion. If not, I'd suggest that you try driving an S500 with various suspension settings. When you do, please drive it hard, turn it sharp, and see how you feel.