Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#631 of 24726 surveys
Feb 20, 2001 (10:25 am)
Just don't put a lot of stock into what that survey says. For instance, Jaguar used to be well know for being problematic. Still they have strong repeat business because of the type of market they cater to. So an owner of a shoddy 1990 VDP who trades into a nice new V8 VDP will be astonished by the improvement in quality. This will be reflected in the survey, lets just say they were a little jaded from previous experience. Now if a Lexus owner has any trouble, even the smallest item, it is likely to be reflected in the survey. What I am trying to illustrate is that the survey is not as reliable as one would hope due to auto brand loyalty. That said, I would not buy ANY of the cars listed without a service contract of some type, the factory backed ones being the best.
#632 of 24726 FWD vs. RWD on STS board
Feb 20, 2001 (12:30 pm)
We are having a great discussion in the Seville STS- Two board about RWD vs. FWD, and what a true luxury car in this class should have. Because the STS is switching to RWD in the near future, some of the diehards prefer the FWD. Check it out, it's interesting.~A.R.
P.S. Webmaster, I hope this is okay to do, and not breaking the rules.
#633 of 24726 Help me select a used JAG
Feb 20, 2001 (10:43 pm)
I am considering buying an XJ series Jag - say from 1995 to 1998.
(1) What advice can you give me ? XJ6 or XJ8 ?
Models to avoid ? What mileage range would be advisable ?
(2) What about the "unreliablility" of Jags - true or false for these model years ?
(3) What extended warrenty is best among those available ?
(4) Any other advice to someone "new to Jag" ?
#634 of 24726 ljflx
Feb 21, 2001 (12:06 am)
Oh you mean within the Toyota empire, Lexus kept the technology for themselves. Yes that's true, luxury brand first. I'll be the first on to admit that Mercedes and all other German cars (Porsche is a disgrace) are way behind on in-car entertainment. Mercedes still doesn't offer an in-dash CD player standard, which quite frankly is silly and absurd for a 2001 model car. Remember I'm probably their 2nd biggest fan on all of Edmunds. Are you saying that Lexus has traction control first? I think it went like this, Lexus was first in the U.S. on the 1990 LS400, but the 500SL (also new for 1990) had it also, but in Europe only, it came to the U.S. on the 500SL for 1991. Cadillac *may have* had it in 1989 on the Allante. Not sure, but possible. You can't expect BMW's profit margins to be as high as Toyota's, look at the size of the 2 companies. As long as BMW does what they do best, build the best sporting luxury cars on earth they'll be ok, if not bursting at the seams with cash like you say Toyota is. You have to remember that Germans are very stubborn, they rarely if ever sell cars at a loss. And Mercedes' prices are only competitive at base, with options Mercedes' cars are still ususually thousands more than their nearest competitor, excluding BMW. Yes they have more standard equipment now, and they are cheaper than their direcet predessors, but they'll never cost less than a Japanese car. So far there hasn't been any technology from MB implemented on any Chrysler products, if that is what you meant by MB having another "platform" to spread costs too. Otherwise they've always spreaded techlogoy from the bigger cars to the smaller ones.
#635 of 24726 Porsche a disgrace?
Feb 21, 2001 (6:39 am)
Never intended to entertain you with anything other than race car moves. I never even listen to the CD player in my Porsche when its on the track where it belongs.
Feb 21, 2001 (12:11 pm)
Personally, I would opt for the XJ6. There wasn't a huge improvement switching from the I6 to the V8. To compare, the I6 had 245 bhp, and 289 ft.lb. of torque. The V8 has 290 bhp, and 290 ft.lb. of torque. So, in day to day driving, where torque is more important, they are equal.
The body styles are nearly identical, the XJ6's will be cheaper, interiors almost the same (I prefer the XJ6 interior design to the XJ8 actually). The XJ8's will come with more standard equipment, but any Jag buyer would load it to the gills anyway.
We got our XJ6 used, as you will, and it had the "Select Jaguar Warranty" I think it's called. It's whatever Jaguar gives to it's used cars, that's the name. And it pretty much covers everything.
I would say go for a 1996-97 XJ6. It's always better not to buy the first year of a car. I would also say to go for the Vanden Plas, as the rear-seat room in the standard wheelbase is pitiful.
As for the reliability problems, Ford had owned Jaguar for a number of years when these models came out, and they worked out most of the bugs.
They are great cars to buy used. The mileage isn't really an issue, since the engines are engineered to high standards. I'd say somewhere in the 60,000m range.
I think you will be happy with either an XJ6 or an XJ8, but I would advise to go for the XJ6. Better fuel economy, and not much of a difference from the V8. Good luck.~ A.R>
Feb 21, 2001 (2:35 pm)
You diss Lexus for their emphasis on ride and tranquillity and recommend the Jag? Come one now. The Jaguar has far less of the driving dynamic you say you love in the German makes. It's a soft, luxurious car in the British tradition -- and it's showing its age. Check out the latest comparison test in Auto World Weekly -- the Jag came out on the bottom for a whole host of reasons, including lack of power.
As for bwh's comment that "The companies financial statement means nothing to me. Buying a Lexus based on their bottom line seems beside the point, the car is not an investment," I believe he missed the point. What ljflx was saying is that by following a sound business plan, Lexus will always have the necessary capital to meet the market head-on, whereas Mercedes is already in trouble because of its disastrous handling of the D/C merger and Mitsu buy-out. D/C's stock went up following the rumor (some say floated by D/C executive staff) that Toyota was thinking about buying them out. What does that tell you?
Feb 21, 2001 (3:34 pm)
I am sorry, but I would take the Jaguar over the Lexus anyday because the Jaguar has a sense of heritage. That plays an important role in my decision making as well. And the Jaguar is not soft- it is not as stiff as the German cars, but when called upon it performs admirably. There is definately a difference between a BMW and Jaguar, but it is still a luxury-sport sedan. I would say the Lexus is a pure luxury car. Jaguar goes to the effort to tune their cars, and give them R designation. XJR, XKR etc...
And also, the lady of the house is the primary driver of the Jaguar and she primarily wanted it for it's curb appeal. She's a women- you can't blame her. If she had asked for a Lexus, the answer would definately be no. The Jaguar still ranks higher than the Lexus.~ A.R.
#639 of 24726 Denniswade
Feb 21, 2001 (5:50 pm)
Thanks. The moves of today will determine the cars (and prices)of tommorrow. Heritage is relevant in living things not cars. Both MB and BMW are in trouble right now. If MB mishandles Chrysler any further they will slide very fast. The car enthusiasts will notice the difference in quality in say 2004 or so. Toyota is in an unbelievably strong financial position and the fact that the LS430 is such a hit solidifies their market power all the more.
Merc1 - Regardless of who deploys new technology first the other guy usually is there within a year. So I hardly think it matters who gets there first. But if MB is not going to share platforms or technology then why the heck did it buy Chrysler? That deployment is what is making Toyota so solid right now. By the way the worst dream MB can have is to see luxury technology deployed in everyday Toyotas before they have it.
#640 of 24726 arcaotes
Feb 21, 2001 (5:54 pm)
Your passion overcomes common sense. I admire it but would never trust your opinion. Have you ever driven a Lexus LS430? Do you have any clue how great a car it is??