Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#6134 of 24723 Re: Livinbmw [livinbmw]
Jul 20, 2004 (11:55 am)
I have a 2003 530 with SP, PP, etc. The wheels are the wonderful 2-piece BBS-type wheels. The 540 SP has a different wheel as standard equipment. Lots of aftermarket options that look great, but very pleased with my OEM wheels. Not sure if BBS is the actual supplier, however. New SP wheels are not exceptional, but not unattractive either.
BTW, the BMW SP option is more than a wheel/tire upgrade as on the MB E-Class.
#6135 of 24723 SQUARE WHEELS?
Jul 20, 2004 (11:57 am)
Here's some wheels on new BMW's that are dope...
330i performance pk, 330Ci sport, M3, oh my god look at those 760i wheels!!!, 4.4 sport wheels, 4.8is and the Z4 3.0 standard as opposed to the sport elipsoid wheel,,,,,,,,,
check these out designman. Maybe, you can reconsider.
#6136 of 24723 Re: [dieselbreath]
Jul 20, 2004 (12:01 pm)
Speaking of getting your facts straight... the Sprinter Van is a DCX product, not a VW product.
#6137 of 24723 Re: Evidence? Tell me this isnít affecting German cars: [designman]
Jul 20, 2004 (2:30 pm)
Odd, the article you mention doesn't say that SAP is suffering from quality issues in its SW products. What it states is the obvious: it is expensive to do business in Germany. Labor laws are strict indeed, and employees relatively protected. *Nowhere* does it state that thios affects quality standards in German products - you guys are making that up, and injecting it as a fact into some other facts nor I nor anyone else with an ounce of common sense disputes. SAP -like any other Germany, car companies included- has declared cost cutting a high priority. *Nothing* to do with quality. None of the points you make. And that was all I disputed all along. Never did I say Germany didn't have challenging labor laws. But by the way, when I worked for a high tech public company in 2001 we whacked the German office just like the US offices, and 3 months was all everybody got US or anywhere else...
And note I utterly share the sentiment about melting pot - strict ideology is soemthing I have always viewed as a copout by the intellectually lazy. I feel utterly comfortable freely borrowing whatever I think works best for the particular social and economical issues we face.
#6138 of 24723 Re: [michael_mattox]
Jul 20, 2004 (2:37 pm)
Mattox - you need to learn a bit about the way German unions work. They do not strive to make all workers equal, that is utter nonsense. The compensation schemes are highly performance oriented, period, and the more and better you work the more you'll make as a rule.
And cite one single study that links German unions or lack or workers' will to work hard with MB's quality problems. There aren't any. Again, lack of investment a la Toyota in making sure you're implementing best of the best practices is what is missing, because it was not prioritized. If you could read German, there are several articles in www.diezeit.de that have gone into that, especially when it comes to MB's recent history of management mistakes. The fact that you assume the guys that bought Chrysler are guys that set the right process priorities internally, and that it was merely lazy workers that didn't do their part is downright entertaining.
#6139 of 24723 Guys Guys GUYS
Jul 20, 2004 (2:41 pm)
Look, let me start off saying 'YES I AM ASSOCIATED WITH AUDI!'
However, I bought an Audi after owning a BMW328, and a Merc E320. I love this car, as most europians do. That is what made me fight to get a position with the company.
I am not trying to push this product, but I would like to get things straight.
1: Lexus is an "Entry" Lux car. It uses styrofoam for sound damping, and sounds like a tin can hitting a wall whenever you close a door or hood. It is a nicely refined toyota, good value for the money, but nowhere close to the Germans for performance, road handling, or Lux Passenger Environment.
2: BMW is a solid car. And it actually handles great in a straight line when compared to Merc or Audi. And they even have a windows (YEP) base computer system. (Bet you wondered why all the problems...) P.S. The name cost you an extra $5k - $15k.
3: Merc just had a press release claiming that over 600 features where being removed due to "not be needed," and "not being profitable to make work correctly." This came after a historic rise in customer complaints in recent years. P.S. Greatly underpowered compaired to is rivals.
4: If I had to be involved in a major accident, I would only choose to be in a "german" car. Go to one of the dealerships for these cars and drive one if you don't understand.
5: This being said, once you drive and Audi you will understand why it Rules Europe. There is nothing even close in performance, fit and finish, SAFETY, and Material Quality. I dare you to actually drive these before you challenge me. (I will admit, there were some really crappy older models....I refer to 1998 and up when Audi rebuilt themselves.)
#6140 of 24723 Re: [pablo_l]
Jul 20, 2004 (5:29 pm)
"if you happen to network with Limbaugh and go for good old intellectually lazy right wing clichees"
Gee, is Limbaugh in charge of manufacturing? I didn't know that!!!
Life is better at the beach!
#6141 of 24723 Re: Guys Guys GUYS [audibob]
Jul 20, 2004 (5:34 pm)
How about "styling"? or -- exciting to look at? Couldn't Audi include that with its "great engineering"? A lot of things are designed and engineered for near mechanical perfections -- but boring.
#6142 of 24723 Re: Evidence? Tell me this isnít affecting German cars: [designman]
Jul 20, 2004 (5:39 pm)
"best aspects of each will combine to affect the world positively"
I'd like to be educated. What, pray tell, are the best aspects of Socialism?
Jul 20, 2004 (5:46 pm)
Heh, well, this is not the right venue to explore the best aspects of socialism, so let's just stick to the specific cars without going that far out of the discussion and the message board boundaries.