Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#614 of 24726 ljflx (re: post #582)
Feb 18, 2001 (4:34 am)
Thank you. Well as far as the C looking like the S, it's always been that way. The previous C from 1994-2000 looked just like the S-Class from 1992-1999 (the infamous W140-Tanks) the 190E looked like the 420/560SEL's of the day. The previous C, especially at night was almost impossible to tell from the 1999 S-Class if the car was coming from behind you. Now granted the new C is an exact copy of the S, but it's just keeping it in the family. The E has always been the style leader, now I expect the next E (2003) to break away from the S and C look with something different. Actually there is spy/enhanced photo of the 2003 E in the E-Class topic. It looks similar to the S of course, but it's not exactly like it. I still way let Lexus make their "big move", Mercedes will always be Mercedes-Benz. They've been around too long to be toppled that easy, or at least not to see it coming. Believe it or not I really thought Lexus would make it, especially I saw the first dealership (Chicago area) around here. Then I looked at their main car (LS400) and who it was imitating. I thought here's a Japanese Benz, and that's basically what they are.
Naturally I like all Mercedes cars, but the E has always been the "best" one for me. It's the right size and price and it gives a good dose of the Benz experience. My favorite E were the 1986-1995 W124 models. I don't know if you remember those, but they defined what a "Mercedes-Benz" is. Pure.
Funny thing about all this is that in 5-7 years Hyundai will probably have a 45K car, and/or a luxury division.
#615 of 24726 ljflx (re:post #594)
Feb 18, 2001 (4:47 am)
You're right on some things, wrong on others. I don't know if you've been to the autoshows this season, but the new Q doesn't even attract any attention. HP is going to have to mean a lot, because to me this is sorry, pitiful car, I would rather have (gulp!) the LS430. Japanese have no design talent at all. If that is what the new Z is going to look like they can keep it. The previous car was good looking, but this new one isn't. Mercedes' parent company didn't buy Chrysler because of Lexus, I know you don't think that. If that was the case, Daimler-Benz would have done something in 1993, when they were at their lowest point of the previous decade. I guess what I keep hearing from you is that Toyota/Lexus changed the world so much and it just isn't so. GM will never have BMW. Never. Ever. What technology did Lexus have 2-3 years before Mercedes. I would really like to know that.
#616 of 24726 arcoates
Feb 18, 2001 (4:56 am)
Cadillac has a chance of truly competing, but they are chasing a moving target that is already way ahead of them. GM's problem is that they don't sweat the details of luxury car construction like Mercedes, BMW and yes Lexus. Lexus is the just more of the same nightmare for GM. The Camry handles one end and the LS430 the other. The Europeans have the luxury car know-how to compete better with the Japanese. Cadillac's Northstar is one good engine, and a rwd will complement it, but if Cadillac doesn't do something more with the way they build their cars, the advantages of the engine/chassis combo will be lost. Mercedes, BMW and Lexus cars don't fall apart after 50K miles, like so many GM cars do. I'm so anxious to see what the 2004 Seville will be like, but by then a new E, GS, and 5-Series will be right there waiting. Then there is Audi, Jaguar, Infiniti and I think everyone is going to be surprised when Acura decides to seriously compete in the upper segments. I know they have the RL, but it get trounced by almost all of it's 6-cylinder competition.
#617 of 24726 merc1
Feb 18, 2001 (10:14 am)
Was the E the car in the "Four Seasons" that fell into the lake? DO I have the right movie - You know the one with Alan Alda? That was a classic car. I also don't like looks of the new Q - but have a feeling it will be hot. Let's see.
#618 of 24726 merc1
Feb 18, 2001 (10:21 am)
I didn't say Lexus had technology before MB. Only that it had a huge car base to pass it onto. In the business world that kind of leverage is a huge advantage. Their strategy could have backfired but it didn't. That's why MB had no choice. But Juergen has made colossal bad moves since the deal. You don't buy a company and then turn off their management team the way he did. Foolish German pride.
#619 of 24726 upcoming cars
Feb 18, 2001 (2:40 pm)
I agree merc1- that is the only problem with GM. I think it's because they have always been the worlds largest company, and sell their cars regardless of the interior pieces. It's almost as if they have the same workmanship standards from the Cavalier to the STS. If they want to compete, they are gonna have to wise up.
Acura better have something good with the new RL- because at the moment it is no competition to the rest. And the new Q is extremely ungainly in design- the front headlights, although revolutionary (they claim) are so huge they make the car look funny. The rest of it is so conservative, that I agree I would take the LS430 over it.
The next few years should be interesting in this market- with all the new money around, more car companys are going to try and join this market, and there is going to be some extremely good cars out there~ A.R.
#620 of 24726 Hello, Considering the following for my parents:
Feb 18, 2001 (3:51 pm)
My mothers birthday, and my fathers retirement are coming up soon. I would like to purchase them both a car. I am planing on getting my mom an S430, and with the options I feel she would want it came out to $81,084. I am either getting my dad a CLK55 or a CL500. I am leaning to the CL500, because that seems to be a good mix of premium luxury and sports, although the price is a little outrageous. The dealer offered me 72k for the CLK55, and $90,022 for the CL500. I am going tommorow to make an order on two cars, any input before I decide on what to get them? Also do you think the S500 is worth the extra premium, that came out to $91,124, for my mom? Thanks for your help!
#621 of 24726 Hello, I've made up my mind.....
Feb 18, 2001 (3:55 pm)
I am not getting the CL or the S500, I think I'll put my order in for the S430, and the CLK55 AMG. Dealer brought the S430 down to 78.5k, and the CLK is set in stone at MSRP. Making the order tommorow, ignore most of the other post.
#622 of 24726 For Your Parents
Feb 18, 2001 (6:02 pm)
If you love them....buy the LS430 for one of them, so you will be sure that one of them will still love you!! Take the savings and give them a trip around the world.....
It's a no-brainer....
#623 of 24726 ljflx
Feb 19, 2001 (3:09 am)
I didn't see that movie. Try www.mercedesshop.com and go to the "featured cars" section and look at the 300E/E320, 400E/E420, and 500E/E500 cars. Thats the E I was speaking of. I went to the Detroit show last month and the Chicago show the other day and the new Q isn't even being looked at. I think after the first 6 months everyone that really wants one will have one, after that it'll be in the 99 cents bin like the current car. I not sure I understand your comments about Lexus' base that they passed the technology on to and that "Mercedes had no choice". I'm not clear on what you're trying say there. Now the merger/buy-out I agree with, it's a big mess. I don't see how anyone could have thought it was a merger of equals. I for one almost had to be hospitalized the day I heard of it. (ha ha...)