Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#6094 of 24726 Groupings and classifications
Jul 19, 2004 (11:57 am)
Trying to defeat the so-called "Lexi group" is useless.... Same as trying to defeat the "BMW-crowd" or "MB-fanatics". Stating which: many of us Lexi fans know quite a bit about MBs and BMWs (prior owners, friends and family), but I find that *many* German car fans are more introverted with their brand loyalty and don't even bother to learn much about Toyota/Lexus bcos of the bias based on perceptions of Japanese cars. The most some of them know are culled from auto rag comparos, reviews, comments, whatever.... Those like Merc1 and even (newly minted) Livinbmw use qualifiers such as yawns, boring, ugly, copy-cats, etc to describe Lexus cars and trucks. Interesting to see that these days when we talk about MBs and BMWs its more to do with their styling than their performance. Like Michael_Mattox correctly stated, today's MB is more about style (look-at-me) than function (how-much-I-offer-you). How sad ! The most illustrious, innovative, marque brand on the planet (MB) is more concerned about how their product "looks" than what it does !!!
As a Lexus owner, I have written my comments on a test drive of my colleagues '03 C230 6-speed Kompressor. I have also test driven an '04 LS430, and written my comments about the car. HAd long and extensive test drives of the LS, 528i, GS3, and A6, prior to buying the LS. My wife prefered I purchase the BMW, and I was quite close to buying it but went with my head rather than my heart, and bought the LS. Feel a lot better about that decision. I am only 41, very active, very educated, and a working class professional. Looks like I may not fit the profile of an LS owner (50-ish, business owner-type, non-athletic, yada yada yada). I have many friends who are MB and BMW owners. I have written about some of their experiences with their German cars. Overall, they give their cars mid-grade in reliability and performance. Talking of performance, maybe we need to re-produce an excerpt from the Dec 2003 C&D comparo of the $70K lux cars (which the LS430 won, remember):
The Lexus ride is unmatched in this group. There's a switch on the dash that lets you make it a little worse if you must. Go ahead, if more sinew in the suspenders makes you think handling is better.... Acceleration is brisk: second best to 60 mph; third in the quarter, at 95 mph, as it showed taillights to three of the four Germans...
That is the LS that is ridiculed here as a yawn and a boring car. 0-60 in about 6s is boring to German car fans. Even when it shoes tailights to the likes of the S430 and Audi A8. Boring indeed !!! Yeah right. Turned out the S came LAST in the comparo. That is truly a huge failure especially since many MB fans live and die on these comparos anyway. There is much that was revealed in the Dec 2003 comparo; how truly Lexus has climbed the ladder of success against the Germans, and how truly the Germans have fallen against the despised and much ridiculed (boring yawn) Lexus. Like I always say, MB execs are NOT yawning at Lexus now, are they ? Maybe they'll get their cut-backs from their workers and use these $600M+ to build a better car than Lexus builds. Guess, we'll see won't we.
#6095 of 24726 introverted........?????????
Jul 19, 2004 (12:44 pm)
There is an awful lot of psychology going on here.
I'm liking this Lexus F1 team concept. The post sinatra crowd could go Josh Brogan.
Jul 19, 2004 (12:58 pm)
The Jag XJ beat all of the Germans as well. VW\Audi were near the bottom.
#6101 of 24726 car and driver
Jul 19, 2004 (1:54 pm)
today's poll on CD website says 49% that the new M5 will be the best production car ever........51% say it will not.
#6102 of 24726 designman
Jul 19, 2004 (4:41 pm)
You mean the BMW guys are saying humina, humina, humina, humina.....
I'm sure that's what Bangle would be saying if the old world BMW lovers could trap him in a corner.
Reviews of the 911 are absolutely awesome. Seems like Porsche improved handling and made the ride smoother and quieter at the same time. That car is going to have a waiting list, I'm sure.
livinbmw - The old 5-series looked athletic, particularly in sport style - the new one looks weird to me. Almost like when you overdecorate a house. Plenty of things may look good individually but the whole package just doesn't come together.
#6103 of 24726 maxhonda
Jul 19, 2004 (4:58 pm)
From what I've been told the LS500GT is a done deal. What's open is the timing. Is it a 2006 on the heels of the new LS or does it come later as a 2007 intoduced in spring - that seems to be the question that's unsettled.