Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Jul 19, 2004 (7:16 am)
Your comment about the hail storm in Chicago, where "...only the Volvos, Mercedes and VW/Audis weren't damaged..." is a complete generalization. I remember the hail storm last year because my car was outside when it happened (I was at my cousin's house for a BBQ). I have a 2002 ES 300. My car did not have one single mark from the storm. My other cousin's 2003 E-Class did get dings. I don't think Mercedes steel is any better, not after what I saw.
Also, my friend in Dallas last year bought a brand-new Volvo wagon for $12,000 off because it sustained hail damage. So, Volvo is not immune either.
#6071 of 24723 Re: michael_mattox [merc1]
Jul 19, 2004 (7:22 am)
Here is my full post: The word style in this context was related to fashionable not the styling of the machine...Sorry about the confusion...My bad. You will also note I said the torch is passing..It will still take a few years for Lexus to fully gain the reputation that Mercedes once had ...but as surly as day follows night it is happening.
Good Post..If I read it right you are pointing out how Rolls survived on it's reputation for quality for 20 years or more then the torch was passed to Mercedes who had actually had built better quality cars for years and it just took the public years to catch up...
Now the torch (the public perception of quality and style and prestige) is passing from Mercedes to Lexus...
#6072 of 24723 Re: merc1 [lenscap]
Jul 19, 2004 (7:30 am)
I agree with your assessment. Mercedes definately used to have thicker metal, but I noticed when the 1996 E-class came out the body panel sheet metal got thinner over the 1995 E-class. I think it's obvious why the exterior steel has gotten thinner in recent years. First is expense-this is one are where they can cut substantial bucks without sacrificing safety and without the customer really noticing the cutback. Second, with cars becoming ever safer with structural improvements and safety gear, it really isn't necessary to have as thick steel panels as it used to be. Third, automakers have to shave off pounds wherever they can to improve gas mileage. And with weight being added elsewhere because of all the useless gadgets this has to be done.
I know the "germans can do no wrong" crowd will go off and twist and turn the post around to say what they want it to say, but buy saying that Mercedes has thinned out the metal in no way means it's as thin as a Hyundai's panel or the E-class is not solid.
#6073 of 24723 Subaru Going Upscale
Jul 19, 2004 (7:38 am)
In last week's Automotive News there was an article about Subaru going upmarket. The bosses in Japan are "demanding" the brand be the equal of Audi and near BMW in brand prestige in the U.S. within five years. To help the effort there will be upgraded showrooms and all-new styling that will debut on a new 7-passenger SUV next year.
The "dramtic" styling will appear on all future models and is being done by Subaru's new chief designer, who has worked at Alfa Romeo, BMW, Fiat and Pininfarina. The SUV will cost more than the Outback, which starts at about $34,000.
It will be interesting to see how Subaru fares.
Jul 19, 2004 (7:45 am)
Don't understand your post. I never said anything about age. I said there is no such thing as an athletic demo and there isn't - at least not one that any marketer or info company would use. If a demo is not independently accepted and in the mainstream no one believes it and it is useless aa a marketing tool. Demos are tied all the way down to block levels at times and the only ones that are buildable upon for marketing tools are wealth based or spending power ones cross tied to age. There is also a lifestage variant of age which is tied to whether you have children, how many and what age classifications they fit into. Consumer package goods companies and auto manufactures are very interested in lifestage for obvious reasons. There used to be others that tried to develop various offshoots but they never came into play including one that will tell you about illnesses by zipcode. The only ones who care about the latter are local hospitals hence it never got off the ground. It's pretty easy to define what a male between 25-34 making $X per year is and to prove the data. It comes from census data and census updates cross verified with other databases including credit checks. How would anyone define athletic and how would you prove such a subjective thing? You can't, thus it doesn't exist.
designman - went back and read your post 5992 where you ranted about auto sales. Now you should have said to yourself - before you posted - "pins and needles, needles and pins, a happy man is a man who grins". Then you would have felt much calmer. But make sure you keep paying the bills.
#6075 of 24723 Bangle Beauty............
Jul 19, 2004 (8:01 am)
Kudos to BMW for having the courage to evolve in more than performance and technology but also style. All these anti-BMW people will look at everything as a fault. Which explains these contentions that any other make could possibly drive as well or, as ridiculous as it may be, better than the ultimate driving machine.
The 5 for instance has a much more muscular active look than the previous subdued conservative look. The tall doors and sloped front end give the car a look of movement and power. The bended surfaces divert from the boring "cut out of a cylinder" appearance and lets the light offer a natural variety of shadow play that is elegant and always active.
Many of the same points would be true of the Z4 in a more flamboyant sense without looking awkward like the boxster or SC.
#6076 of 24723 Re: merc1 [ljflx]
Jul 19, 2004 (8:09 am)
just for a second maybe consider the possibility that you don't know every demographic designation.
The athletic classification is a BMW demograph. This is the "active" group that includes skiers, campers, snow-boarders, bikers, etc... notice the new X3 ads? Example, BMW has a higher percentage of golfers than any other make, much higher than Mercedes. That's why it was a priority for them to have trunk space in the Z4 for golf clubs. Did anyone see the ESPN ad with the stanley cup in the front passenger seat and the huge guy in the trunk?
#6077 of 24723 Re: Bangle Beauty............ [livinbmw]
Jul 19, 2004 (8:17 am)
Who's the "anti-Bmw" people?
I'm gonna love hearing you list the people who are "anti-bmw" and how you come to the conclusion that they are "anti-bmw".
#6078 of 24723 Re: Bangle Beauty............ [livinbmw]
Jul 19, 2004 (8:18 am)
I have to say that it seems to me that the BMW style is evolving in the Wrong direction.
#6079 of 24723 Folks
Jul 19, 2004 (8:28 am)
Labeling the "groups" participating in this conversation is downright silly and childish. (anti-bmw folks, germans-can-do-no-wrong group, Lexi people etc.)
Let's talk about our thoughts and ideas without categorizing the folks we are talking to -- it's not necessary, becomes a point of argument in and of itself and it distracts from a productive debate.