Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Jul 13, 2004 (12:02 pm)
"Reliability has nothing to do with sturdiness in the sense that I'm relating to. If that were the case than we'd rank the Corolla number one. "
Then what are you relating to?
-Body rigidity? Well, Lexus ranks right up there with Mercedes & BMW in safety ratings. Safety ratings are obviously a testement to body rigidity. Also, I have a uncle that owns both a ES300 with 130K miles and a 2000 LS400. The ES300 is still flex free and suspension soaks up bumps as well as day 1, not to mention steering & brakes operate flawlessly. Sure seems the body is still pretty tight to me after all these miles. The LS400, built like a tank, no flexing, even over the most potholed roads, can't hear any squeaks, rattles from anywhere. Is that sturdiness?
How about how the hardware holdsup? 130K miles & all windows are original, all still work. In fact, everything in the car is still original and everything still works as good as when new.
"Then, you're saying better braking, steering, control, acceleration.........."
Check the stats buddy. The GS brakes better than the 5-series. the LS430 brakes better than the 7-series. The IS300 brakes better than the 3-series. Acceleration? Isn't the GS430 on par with a 540i? Or the LS430 quicker than the 745i/IL?
"Vehicles are for driving". So than shouldn't everyone be driving a BMW? How is the RX330 squashing the X3&X5 combined? How is the ES330 outselling the 3-series sedan line-up? Or the LS430 outselling the 7-series by about a 2 to 1 margin? Huh...wait I can answer that. Not everyone has handling as their #1 priority!
Jul 13, 2004 (12:04 pm)
"but the 7 series will trounce the LS, if BMW addresses the issues."
And what would happen if Lexus addresses the few issues that they do have?
#5814 of 24726 Re: [maxhonda99]
Jul 13, 2004 (12:05 pm)
"Check the stats buddy. The GS brakes better than the 5-series. the LS430 brakes better than the 7-series. The IS300 brakes better than the 3-series. Acceleration? Isn't the GS430 on par with a 540i? Or the LS430 quicker than the 745i/IL?"
No according to recent comparisions, the 7 series is the better handler, better accelerator, better braker and gets better gas mileage.
Jul 13, 2004 (12:13 pm)
The last comparo I read had the LS430 with slightly better braking and I think about the same acceleration time. Gas mileage? You know how accurate EPA figures are. Also, the BMW 745i is 18/26 vs. 18/25. wow! big difference. Thanks for the correction!
#5816 of 24726 Re: [maxhonda99]
Jul 13, 2004 (12:27 pm)
That's the thing about comparos they are all different, the last one I read, the 7 had a lead in the performance stats department. The reason the LS came out on top was because the testers felt the 7 series ride was too harsh and didn't like the i-drive and felt the LS interior is better (I don't think so).
Jul 13, 2004 (12:57 pm)
ah yes, magazine comparos do vary based on many factors. The last C&D comparo of luxury cars was the last one I can remember. And the comparo did favor the other cars because the LS430 didn't have the sport suspension option, therefore the Ls430 only had the 17" wheels with H-rated tires, whereas the others had bigger and stickier tires.
but of course, comparos also vary greatly based on weather, track conditions. And of course you could test the same cars on different days and get different measurements.
#5818 of 24726 Re: [maxhonda99]
Jul 13, 2004 (1:26 pm)
My contention is not that Lexus has poor body rigidity or bad brakes. Only that the BMW is better. It's a better driving car. And, it leads the luxury segment in sales.
Jul 13, 2004 (1:32 pm)
"the seven series is superior inside and out to lexus"
Does it have superior Dependability?
Superior Price (in terms of a lower price not higher)
Superior sound system
Superior Nav system
Superior Emissions (in terms of Lower emissions)
Superior safty systems
Is it more quiet.
Does it have a superior dealer and service network
The above are all objective standards...More pleasing to the eye is a subjective standard....The 7 series does handle a little better if you like to drive very fast on twisty roads...
Jul 13, 2004 (1:40 pm)
There's action in the BMW bullpen...
#5821 of 24726 Livinnbw
Jul 13, 2004 (1:47 pm)
My contention is not that Lexus has poor body rigidity or bad brakes. Only that the BMW is better. It's a better driving car. And, it leads the luxury segment in sales
Talking of total hack job here. Livinbmw, you obviously need to re-check your facts on the 7 vs LS. Have you seen/heard/read of this comparo test back in Dec 2003 ?
Guess who won ???
How about sales YTD ? Guess who is wayyyyyy ahead of the 7-series in sales ??? Well, guess again !!!
Now back to my rocking chair....