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High End Luxury Cars
24723 messages, Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum.What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#5366 of 24723 Re: michael_mattox [michael_mattox #5365] by maxhonda99
Jun 10, 2004 (11:47 am)
Replying to: michael_mattox (Jun 10, 2004 10:21 am)
500SL: 5.0L V6 322bhp and it had it since day 1 of introduction, unlike the Cadillac which got the Northstar in 92 or 93. Prior to that the Allante had that archaic 200bhp pushrod V8.
Front struts on the Allante? wow! Don't all cars have struts or shocks?
"Bosh 3 ABS that cordinated with power to the wheels to help with traction in snow"
The SL had ABS and traction control also.
"A digital dash (available)"
not something to be proud of!
"Is still a beautiful car..At least equal to the Mercedes of that era."
Personal opinion. The SL, IMO, 1990-2002 still looks beautiful today. But, IMO, the Allante does not.
- michael_mattox (Jun 10, 2004 3:46 pm)
Replies to this message:
#5367 of 24723 by lexusguy
Jun 10, 2004 (12:20 pm)
LOL digital dash! I remember an old friend of mine showing off his mid '80s Vette to me with one of those god awful things. What was wrong with people in the '80s? Front struts too, wow. No leaf springs?Motown, you're wrong. I might be not be in my 20s anymore. But I'm a technical engineer for a company that makes equipment that does large scale CPU testing\binning. I know computers VERY well. iDrive is not a "brilliant" piece of technology. Its simply a bad design with a HORRID user interface. What can it do that you cant with one of Acura or Lexus touch screens? Nothing. You just have the privaledge of trying to figure out how for 20 minutes, before giving up. Neither of my said touch screens "crash" when it gets too cold out either.
#5368 of 24723 by pablo_l
Jun 10, 2004 (2:01 pm)
Just started a new job, and my CEO also drives a BMW 760... the interior is awesomely made, and even though the lack of a shift mechanism in the middle and the exterior designs I'd still have to get used to, there's no doubt that the driving experience itself is fabulous and potentially addictive. I couldn't help but fool around with i-drive some, and don't think it that bad at all, the idea of reducing switch clutter is laudable, but *some* other knobs I'd still like to have.#5369 of 24723 by pablo_l
Jun 10, 2004 (2:02 pm)
...and it's been a good month for BMWs among my friend circle. A very good friend just got a 645 convertible. I am not a big fan of the design, still, but when you sit inside and drive around the car is great.#5370 of 24723 Re: michael_mattox [maxhonda99 #5366] by michael_mattox
Jun 10, 2004 (3:46 pm)
Replying to: maxhonda99 (Jun 10, 2004 11:47 am)
Ok here are the numbers for both cars, Any fair minded person who cares to actually take another look at the two cars will agree the Allante is the most beautiful by todays standards. I would provide a link but then I would have Pat all over me. 93 Allante $60,000...A hard top would cost an additional $3000
4.6L(279.0cu.in.) V-8 DOHC SMPI 32 valve engine (0-60 in under 6)
Electronic ignition
V-8
Unleaded
144 amp alternator
770 CCA battery
4-speed electronic automatic transmission with overdrive
Front-wheel drive
Steering and Suspension
Hydraulic power-assist steering
4 wheel disc brakes
Regular ride suspension
Front strut suspension
Front anti-roll bar
Rear anti-roll bar
Front and rear 16.0" diameter alloy wheels
P225/60ZR16.0 BSW AS front and rear tires
Seating and Interior
Bucket front seats
10-way adjustable driver seat (2-way power) with power reclining, power 2-way lumbar support
10-way adjustable passenger seat (2-way power) with power reclining, power 2-way lumbar support
Leather faced front seats with leather side and back
Full carpet floor covering
Carpeted floor mats
For the driver's seat
Safety
4-wheel anti-lock braking system
Driver front-impact side airbag
Ignition disable security
Security system
Dimensions and Capacities
Door Count 2 doors
Exterior Length 178.7"
Exterior Width 73.4"
Exterior Height 51.5"
Wheelbase 99"
Exterior Features
2 doors
Power convertible roof
Dual power remote heated outside mirrors
Regular style mirrors
Rear black bumper rub strip
Halogen fully automatic headlamps with washer
Front fog lights
Underhood light
Monotone paint
------------------------------------------------------------------ -----
93 Mercedes 500SL $98,000
Powertrain
5.0L(303.0cu.in.) V-8 DOHC SPI 32 valve engine
Electronic ignition
V-8
Unleaded
4-speed automatic transmission with overdrive
ABS and driveline traction control
Steering and Suspension
Hydraulic power-assist steering
4 wheel disc brakes
Front anti-roll bar
Rear anti-roll bar
P225/55R16.0 front and rear tires
Seating and Interior
Premium bucket front seats
4-way adjustable driver seat (4-way power) with power height adjustable, power fore/aft
4-way adjustable passenger seat (4-way power) with power height adjustable, power fore/aft
Center rear armrest
Leather faced front seats with leather side and back
Leather faced rear seats with leather side and back
Carpet floor covering
For the driver and passenger's seats, exterior mirrors, steering wheel
Safety
4-wheel anti-lock braking system
Dual airbags
Security system
Dimensions and Capacities
Door Count 2 doors
Exterior Length 176.0"
Exterior Width 71.3"
Exterior Height 51.3"
Wheelbase 99"
Exterior Features
2 doors
With hard top
Dual heated outside mirrors, driver manual remote outside mirror, passenger power remote outside mirror
With washer and wiper
Front fog lights
#5372 of 24723 michael_mattox by merc1
Jun 10, 2004 (9:52 pm)
All I can say mike that I'm deeply disappointed in you here. You're really calling things like these features or imply that they are advantages?"Front struts"
Every car had/has these, the Mercedes' suspension made for better handling because it was an even more sophisiticated multi-link arrangement.
"Bosh 3 ABS that cordinated with power to the wheels to help with traction in snow."
Uhh this is traction control which the Mercedes also had in 1990.
"Front wheel drive (Great for NE driving)"
And bad for handling which an upscale roadster should be able to do, it isn't for winter snow driving.
"No it did not have a full automated top but the top did have automatic pull down and could easily be raised or lowered in 30 sec."
Which was totally unacceptable in a 60K car! I can't believe a person that likes Lexus' attention to detail and full specification would make such excuses like this! Manual tops are for Miatas. Could you imagine that laughter that would be heard today if a car maker tried to sell a 60K luxury convertible with a manual top today?
"A very extensive computer display of any problems with the car, from flat tires, to low fluid levels, to brakes, Lights, oil, pumps etc."
What??? Every car has these things, with the exception of a flat tire/pressure system. A Kia will let you know if the oil has lost the plot!
You post #5370 is pretty much irrelevant (the door count?????) and is just salesman type stuff which says nothing about the design and build of the Allante which was years behind the SL to say the least.
When you get in your Allante I want you to tell me where the seatbelts are located. Then look at the SL's. That is the difference between a company that places more emphasis on leather colors and types than one that is engineering based. The SL's top design/operation is another key area. The automatic roll-over protection is yet another. These are the things that make a car a "luxury" car...things ordinary cars don't have. Looking purely at those specs that Allante was terribly overpriced and hopelessly outmatched by the SL.
"Yes it did have it's share of electrical and mechanical problems but I am sure no more then the Mercedes of it's era."
Wrong! Dead wrong! Guess who actually lead the surveys in 1990? Mercedes-Benz. Cadillac was at the bottom then!
I must say I'm shocked that one who drives such a complete car like the LS could point to an Allante as being superior to anything.
M
- michael_mattox (Jun 11, 2004 7:55 am)
Replies to this message:
#5373 of 24723 rickcollins by merc1
Jun 10, 2004 (10:34 pm)
Hey is that the new SL600 or the previous 1993-2002 model?M
#5374 of 24723 by pat
Jun 11, 2004 (4:51 am)
Michael_mattox, you can and should provide a link to any first-hand source that you are quoting. We do not allow links directly into other automotive message boards, but they are not likely to be a first-hand source of actual data. If you or anyone has any questions about what may or may not be posted, check the Rules of the Road linked at the top of the page. If you still have questions, feel free to drop me an email.Hope this helps.
#5375 of 24723 by lexusguy
Jun 11, 2004 (7:47 am)
You know GM saw the '94 SL600 with 390hp and 421ft.lb of torque and went crap. We're screwed. The SL and XJS had V12s, RWD, automatic tops, PROPER analog gauges, and vastly superior interiors. And sorry Merc, I like the SL, but as far as that is concerned, advantage: XJS. The final run of the XJS had probably the best interior Jaguar will ever do, it was good enough for Aston Martin duty. My XKR might have 100 more hp, but all that plastic and vinyl (THANKS FORD!!) just dont bring the kind of feelings that this car did.
- michael_mattox (Jun 11, 2004 7:58 am)
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