Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Jun 09, 2004 (11:54 pm)
Your giving Jaguar WAY too much credit. Those mid 90s jags had LOTS of problems, including my 94 XJ, and my 98 XK8. Jaguar quality in 2004 is still rated at just mediocre. Same for saab. Just because you happened to get lucky with an XJS that wasnt in the shop all the time, it doesnt mean they are the most reliable cars ever. Lexus has that title. Ive been buying Jags 3-4 years in to avoid that MASSIVE depreciation hit, but Im going to trade my '00 XKR (which has had problems also, including a Supercharger that failed at 20K miles) for an SC430, which I can actually buy new.
#5358 of 24726 michael_mattox
Jun 10, 2004 (2:14 am)
I have to ask you if you're serious. I really took for granted that you knew more about cars!
"Faster, more beautiful, very comfortable for the class, Hi-Tech rich, better ride, more room, a very usable trunk that would take a set or two of golf clubs and still have a little room left for luggage."
Wrong on all counts! The Allante was not faster than the 500SL, only the 300SL, and I won't even mention the 1993 V12 600SL which would hand the Allante its lug nuts.
The Allante was "high-tech"? Please tell me what was high-tech about it. Please don't tell me about gauges and the car saying "good morning" when you started it up. Yeah I know about that stuff.
I know what it didn't have (to name a few things):
The 1990 SL had a completely automatic top, only a button push was needed.
The 1990 SL had the world's first completely automatic rollover protection.
The 1990 SL (300SL) had the worlds first 5-speed automatic transmission, this was in 1990!
All 1990 SL models had vastly superior engines to any Allante. The Allante only got an competitive engine in 1993 which was it's 8th and last year on the market. Typical GM move.
The Allante had a better ride? I've never seen that published anywhere and if it did, it surely didn't handle like the rwd SL did.
Styling is everybody's own thing so I can't tell you which looked better to you. I thought the Allante did have a unique look for a Cadillac at the time, but it didn't age nearly as well as the SL from those years, imo.
Nobody thinks anything here, the Allante didn't compare to the SL. This is an industry-wide opinion. Everything about the 1990-2002 was superior to the Allante. The 1990 SL was a Mercedes' Mercedes. This car debuted many of the tech features every luxury car uses today, especially luxury convertibles.
Saying the Allante was superior to the 1990 SL is like saying the 1990 DeVille was superior to the 1990 LS400! Something I'm not understanding here if you're used to Lexus quality.
#5359 of 24726 Chinese Market
Jun 10, 2004 (3:03 am)
Have you guys been keeping up with what has been happening with the luxury brands in China?
Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac and Lexus all have massive expansion plans for their booming luxury car market. The luxury car segment is the fastest growing segement in the Chinese market!
Mercedes has already sold a 100K S-Classes in the time they've been there. They're getting ready to starting building C and E-Class in China. They expect to sell 50K units there in the near future.
Lexus plans to open 14 dealerships by next summer! They plan to either build or import their whole lineup for Chinese consumption.
BMW is building 5-Series cars in China already.
GM is spending 3 Billion in China, with most of it behind Cadillac. The CTS, XLR and SRX will all be sold there.
Ferrari and Aston-Martin are getting in on the fun.
Then there is this from a Carconnection article:
"With his hip-hop haircut and simple T-shirt, James Wang might easily be confused with any of the young Beijing residents who came to Auto China 2004 to look and dream about the day when they could buy their first car. But Wang already owns a Porsche 911, as well as a Subaru WRX STi, and was at the show's press day to pick up the keys for his newest automotive acquisition: a Maybach M62. The 27-year-old real estate entrepreneur paid around US$600,000 for the massive luxury machine, after import duties and other taxes. "I like cars," he explained in near-flawless English, adding "I was just waiting for this car to come to China." Wang is part of a young and incredibly affluent new class of businessmen who are emerging in the new China, and like their counterparts in the West, they are struck with car fever."
Yikes. Sounds like the hip-hop/dot.com/athlete thing we have or (had with the dot.com'ers) going on here.
Have the world's car makers hit pay dirt or what???
Jun 10, 2004 (5:51 am)
We'll have to do better than this. Just making claims becomes circular. In the US, neither CR nor JD have "enough" data to rate the Jaguar, and the Saab does better inlong term reliability than the BMW 3 series or Audi. Research it. I did.
More significantly, in Europe you have mandatory and strict technical inspections of cars for safety. Since *every* car on the road is inspected, those give one a very good indication of built integrity. On an average of 100 points for the car industry (more points is less reliability), the Saab 98-02 9-3 comes in at 60, Japanese cars anywhere from 70-45, and the most reliable car is the Volvo S40 with a reliability index of 40. Most Beemers are around 80. Jaguars from '94 on are in the industry average range of 100, some higher than that, but a short cry from the 200+ that Jeeps and Porsches and other exotics on European roads get. This is all from memory, but several European car reliability sites will bear the overall trends out.
Jun 10, 2004 (7:04 am)
Congratulations!! I do envy you. That is my dream car. A V12 dimmer. I love the new design despite what the critics say. I think the problem with the i-drive is overblown. The demographic of the 7 series is a male in is late fifties. Most people in this age group are computer illiterate and therefore easily gets confused when presented with such a brilliant piece of technology. Although, I am not an owner of the 7 series, I had the opportunity to sit in one and fiddle with the knob. My uncle owns a 04 740Li.
Jun 10, 2004 (8:31 am)
I read awhile ago that the VW group was getting 80% of its worldwide profits from China:
Of course, this might be due partly to poor performance outside of China, but I have also read that VW/Audi have very strong market share in China. Not sure of the reasons for that...perhaps they got established early?
#5365 of 24726 Re: michael_mattox [merc1 #5358]
Jun 10, 2004 (9:21 am)
Here are some 93 allante features. Feel free to compare to any 93 Mercedes 2 seat convertable.
4.6L V-8 295HP (0-60 in under 6)
Front wheel drive (Great for NE driving)
Auto Leveling suspension
Speed sensative: Suspension and Steering
AM,FM, Cassette, CD, Bose sound system.
Bosh 3 ABS that cordinated with power to the wheels to help with traction in snow.
Approx 16.5 cu ft. of cargo space that also had a pass through to the substantual passanger compartment cargo space behind the seats.
A very extensive computer display of any problems with the car, from flat tires, to low fluid levels, to brakes, Lights, oil, pumps etc.
A digital dash (available)
Is still a beautiful car..At least equal to the Mercedes of that era.
No it did not have a full automated top but the top did have automatic pull down and could easily be raised or lowered in 30 sec.
Yes it did have it's share of electrical and mechanical problems but I am sure no more then the Mercedes of it's era.
#5366 of 24726 Re: michael_mattox [michael_mattox #5365]
Jun 10, 2004 (10:47 am)
5.0L V6 322bhp and it had it since day 1 of introduction, unlike the Cadillac which got the Northstar in 92 or 93. Prior to that the Allante had that archaic 200bhp pushrod V8.
Front struts on the Allante? wow! Don't all cars have struts or shocks?
"Bosh 3 ABS that cordinated with power to the wheels to help with traction in snow"
The SL had ABS and traction control also.
"A digital dash (available)"
not something to be proud of!
"Is still a beautiful car..At least equal to the Mercedes of that era."
Personal opinion. The SL, IMO, 1990-2002 still looks beautiful today. But, IMO, the Allante does not.