Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#5240 of 24726 Alternate fuels
May 30, 2004 (12:19 pm)
Toyota and Honda are clear leaders in this area. Ford is coming out with a hybrid Escape using Toyota's (older) first gen hybrid system. Which century are they in ? Even Ford is smart enough to do the right thing - go with proven technology.... Hydrogen fuel-based power is a pipe dream, just as lexusguy said. It ain't gonna happen in twenty years, at the least, imo. The gas-electric system remains the most viable alternative for now. GM and BMW developing H2-hased system will learn soon enough not to throw good money after bad business model. Didn't GM promise this by 2010 ? Yeah, right....
Max: LS500GT, GS350GT, VXxxx (Lexus version of the Sequoia), 2006 Tundra and 2007 Sequoia are all rumored to have a hybrid engine option when they all debut. Guess, we'll see if this ultimately pans out as *speculated*. But Toyota is a proven winner in hybrid system so I'd bet these to happen soon enough, especially as the politics of oil heats up (pun intended) in coming years.
May 30, 2004 (1:53 pm)
I dont think 15+ years qualifies as "stop-gap". I applaud Toyota and Honda for looking at a current environmental and geo-political issue, and DOING something about it. BMW can send out as many press releases as it likes about how great hydrogen is GOING to be, but the all new 5 and 6 series use plain old 93 premium, and lots of it. The RX400h gets what, 2.5x the mileage of the X5?
You're probably looking at 2025 before there's a hydrogen station on every street corner, and the PEM fuel cells and batteries are small enough to fit into your average Civic or Focus.
#5242 of 24726 Roamer's Rules of Innovation
May 30, 2004 (2:21 pm)
Roamer's first rule of innovation says:
"New technology needs to co-exist with that which it is going to replace".
That exactly what hybrids are doing today. Helping us make the transition to more effective chemical and electric solutions to transportation technology.
Hydrogen, OTH, can't until there's at least enough 'hydrogen refueling points' for vehicle to go from point a to point b.
Maybe the right answer for hydrogen is a hydrogen hybrid. We'll call it HyHy.
#5243 of 24726 Leadership Engine Technology
May 30, 2004 (3:49 pm)
Some folks here love to tout the 'heritage' of certain makes and how they were the top gun in 1930 or so. Well, that's great but you know that was 70 years ago.
In the meanwhile, others have been competitive.
For all the fans of BMW, Audi, VW and Mercedes, let's welcome you to the best engine manufacturer on the planet: Honda.
The Indy 500 just ended. Race cars powered by Honda finished in the first 7 positions. No BMW, No Mercedes, No Audi, No VW, No Porsche.
You want something that puts out max power, at 200+ mph for 500 miles or more, where do you go? Not Europe. I read that the MB V10's blew up again in todays Grand Prix F1 race at Nurburgring.
Toyota is 2nd in the IRL standing, Chevy a distant 3rd.
Heritage is one thing, reality is another.
#5244 of 24726 As the P-51s circle Sh-h-htuttgart und Munich
May 30, 2004 (4:37 pm)
Nein!!! Suh Cherman cars are suh BEST!!!!!! Vee are superior unt vee vill vin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 30, 2004 (7:12 pm)
Someone had better develop and throw money at alternative energy source. Gas/electric hybrid systems just delay the inevitable, more reliance on oil.
#5246 of 24726 Re: Leadership Engine Technology [footie #5243]
May 30, 2004 (10:22 pm)
I watched the race until the rain delay and that was it for me. I was surprised to see Honda engine-powered cars so dominant in the race. Buddy Rice, the pole sitter, qualified doing 222+mph. Astounding ! Is this the same Honda company that will not put a V8 in their high-end RL ? Strange....
More to your point tho', the IRL or CART may have Honda and Toyota dominance, but the counter to that is F-1 racing where Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW and others are dominant, and the likes of Toyota and Honda either don't even play or are small potato (I suspect). So it may be a wash anyway.....
May 30, 2004 (10:35 pm)
And just who is going to do that? Cheney?
May 31, 2004 (5:08 am)