Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#4905 of 24726 maxhonda99
May 02, 2004 (9:25 pm)
It was during the introduction of the car, long cleared up by now. Nothing major.
If I had millions and millions of dollars and had every European car I could ever want I'd at least consider a SC430. I still find it to be the most "interesting" Lexus. I was a fan of the previous SC400/300 believe it or not. It was a very good design for a Japanese car.
Easy, because of the money paid for and rep of MBenz. A lot of people expect perfection and if the car doesn't deliver that it gets blasted. Plus unlike Lexus, Mercedes has this 118 year reputation to live up too and when they don't...look out! A dual-edged sword. My point on here is that there seems to be too much exaggeration in these areas.
Man you don't know the half of it. There are some MB fans on other boards here and at germancars fans that totally disagree with me about MB moving back towards their old way of producing fewer, but higher quality cars. I usually find these folks to be lacking in understanding of what Mercedes-Benz truly is. The old-school MB owners/fans etc. are right with me on most things. I don't see why some would want more volume and cheaper MBs that is what they bought Chrysler for, I keep telling them.
Also, I wouldn't look for Lexus to become BMW-like past the next IS series. They would never make a 5-Series beater in the handling department, it would give up too much of the Lexus ride. This goes double for the LS430 vs the 745i. They'll never compromise this for a few enthusiasts that probably wouldn't buy a Lexus anyway. They'll come close with the new GS (in handling) I predict, but I doubt it will outright outhandle a BMW at a track.
I've had "conversation" upon conversation about the E-Class and the 5-Series. The BMW guys say the 5-Series sets the benchmark, and I say it is when it comes to handling. Other areas such as space, ride comfort etc the E is easily better and outsells the 5-Series in just about every country around the world. Now you can arguable add ease of use and practicality too, plus styling, but that is subjective. I ask them why would Mercedes mess with this to chase BMW's 5 in handling when they already have the bigger piece of the market? They've had since the previous 5's introduction in 1996 to build the 2003 E-Class to match that car's handling and they still didn't do it. They aren't trying to obviously. Sure there is AirmaticDC and great adjustability, but chasing BMW in the mid to upper segments when it comes to handling isn't Mercedes' mission and it probably won't be Lexus' either when it comes to the next LS.
Now lexus does want the GS to be seen in the same light as the 5-Series but so far the previous 2 generations have failed at this. Tough spot for them with the GS because the 5 and E are so dominant and they do so on different strengths.
There is a similar dilemma with Honda/Acura not producing a V8 RL. Hot topic on the News and Views side of the house.
Nobody can do it all, all luxury car makers have to make compromises somewhere.
May 03, 2004 (4:25 am)
Anybody a subscriber to Automotive News website?
There is a story on the website about Toyota saying a $100K Lexus is coming. Wanted to get more details if anyone has it from the story.
#4907 of 24726 maxhonda99
May 03, 2004 (4:46 am)
There are probably more than one coming - a sports car and a Super LS (which may be at or just under $100k) and who knows - maybe a super SC coupe type of car as well.
merc1 - I meant sportier external styling for Lexus when I posted. I also don't think they will try to rival BMW beyond the IS and GS cars. But the tuning arm will be a different story.
#4908 of 24726 $100,000 Lexus
May 04, 2004 (5:47 am)
I have the article here. It is an interview with the CEO of Toyota Motor Sales USA, Yuki Funo. Nearly all of the questions deal with Toyota.
However, one of the questions asked is "Should Lexus sell a $100,000 car?"
Funo's answer is that for the Lexus brand such a car is important. He adds that at this stage it is undertermined what kind of car it will be and what engine it will have. Funo mentions a two-seat coupe and four-seat sedan as possibilities, along with engines like a "V-10, a V-12, or whatever."
He then says from a marketing and sales perspective there needs to be a strong car regarded as the flagship/ultimate Lexus. A car like Maybach is said to be too much, but they are working around the $100,000 range.
May 04, 2004 (6:14 am)
From the quotes it sounds like such a car isn't exactly around the corner, timewise. Thanks for the summary, lenscap.
May 05, 2004 (8:58 am)
Well I guess they sold at least one car in the USA...I saw one today, parked. Imho the exterior styling is kind of bland, but the interior looked nice and offered incredible rear legroom.
May 05, 2004 (6:16 pm)
Just what we all need, plenty of rear legroom..That and a hundred thousand dollar (US)price tag on a lexus...Maybe some people need to think of the next generation, and how hard it will be to purchase a home and pay for education..Don`t get me wrong, it would be nice to have a really nice car, but the numbers just don`t add up for what any of them offer for the extra dollars...All of the above is just my opinion, and Lexus better keep the LS price around where it is, or else Tony (to be continued)
#4912 of 24726 Tony
May 05, 2004 (8:10 pm)
You'd be surprised at the increasing wealth in the US today. Unfortunately, it comes at the expense of the greater majority. So, YES, I do agree with you that a peek into the future portends a lot of trouble for our children. As a father of two, I am concerned. In San Diego county where I live, the greatest concern is that our children will never be able to afford to live in the same city they were born and raised. The future looks tough indeed for the gen-Xers out there.
Will Lexus sell a $100K+ car ? Of course they will, and their will be a waiting list too. A hybrid v8, churning out 600bhp+, and 50mpg, with gizmos out of the wahzoo... on a stretched wheelbase, representing the ultimate in luxury and refinement. Yes, I bet they will indeed. See what difference a simple facelift of the '04 LS has on Lexus fortunes this year so far? By a ratio of 2:1, people are buying an almost $70K Lexus over an MB S or BMW 7-. Within 3 years, a $100K Lexus will not seem that much of a stretch either, IMHO.
May 05, 2004 (9:32 pm)
I'm also a father of two and share your exact concern.
That $100K LS will likely have a long waiting list. It simply is such a major fundamental change for the market and will be produced by the most reliable car maker. Where I come from that is labelled as a "sureshot" or if one wants to use negative words a "can't miss".
Tony - I'm afraid prices will rise because demand will be high. But I still think you'll get an LS hybrid in the $72-76k range topping out at $80k or so. If they keep a gas engine LS around its probably in the $65k range - not all that different than today. Add $5k to each for the stretched versions and its easy to see how the super car gets into the $100k-105k+ range. But all of those prices are still cheaper than the MB plates they are designed to conquer.
May 05, 2004 (9:34 pm)
Lexus will probably make two flagship cars near the six figure range.
1) A V8 hybrid LS or V12 LS with the works
2) A halo sports car to against the likes of the NSX and the upcoming Infiniti GTR
There is no way that Lexus would sit around while both its "lesser" Japanese rivals have high-performance, image-building, prestige-enhancing sports cars.