Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Apr 21, 2004 (7:29 am)
The answer to you question (below) is simple..Lexus perfacts the innovation before they put it in their car. A SAFTY INNOVATION WITH an ELECTRICAL PROBLEM EITHER BREEDS "FALSE CONFIDENCE" OR TO THE WELL INFORMED OWNER...A FEELING OF DOUBT AND CONCERN, Will it work, or will it not..Is my family save? BEING FIRST DOES NOT ALWAYS MAKE YOU BEST.
"then why is that Mercedes manages to always beat Toyota to the punch (specifically Lexus) to the market with it? I took the LS430 until 2004 to acquire certain features the S-Class back in 2001. This fact doesn't jive with your statement."
#4769 of 24726 Merc1
Apr 21, 2004 (11:29 am)
You know, you are master (and maybe commander) of misinformation and double talk. Don't make me regurgitate evidence here for you. It will take far too many pages and will cause edmund's to shut down its server(s) for overload....
Suffice to say that it is refreshing to hear you finally admit that MB has problems. Isn't that what we are all saying here ? So all those excuses you have been given all amount to, what, squat ?
Business-minded and technical-minded rationales have been given by many people here, but you find excuses around them. You are redeemable afterall... This is a good sign. Next, we'll get you to admit that Toyota/Lexus execs are far better auto business managers than MB/Chrsyler execs are. They could buy out DCX if they want to, and turn their fortunes around quicker than the Germans can I think. Well, won't that be a hoot !!!
Apr 21, 2004 (12:09 pm)
What feature did MB have in 2001 that Lexus just got in 2004? I'm suprised because back in 2001 it was between an SClass and LS because I thought the LS had more advanced features than the LS. The great NAV system was one of them. I thought the S interior had too much plastic.
Apr 21, 2004 (12:14 pm)
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#4773 of 24726 Regarding some recent posts ...
Apr 21, 2004 (3:08 pm)
There is no need to get personal here. You don't have to agree with everyone, but if you can't find a way to post a contrary opinion without disparaging the person with whom you are disagreeing, then you need to not post at all.
The sniping at other members has to stop. I want to say this publicly because it keeps coming up here, but this necessarily needs to be the end of this conversation since it is off-topic and obviously disruptive.
Comments about my thoughts on this subject may be emailed to me, but they should not be posted here.
We need to keep our conversation focused on the cars and not on each other.
Apr 21, 2004 (4:05 pm)
And I've also removed some questions and speculation about where a Town Hall member works ... I'm sure if that member wants that information to be public, he is aware that he can add that information into his profile.
If he does not want it to be public, then the rest of us need to consider it a private matter and let it be.
In any case, that has not a thing to do with the subject of our discussion, so could we now get back on topic?
#4776 of 24726 edspider1
Apr 21, 2004 (5:09 pm)
Apparently we both cross-shopped the S in 2001 as well. There were two or three options I remember the V8 S-class cars having that the LS lacked (as options) in 2001. One was the ABC system and that is still the case. I would bet though that 90+% of all S-class cars are sold without it anyway. It's a fairly expensive option and there were one or two S-class board posters at that time who had opted for it and were having crazy things happening to them because of it. I remember one guy finding his car in a different position (level wise) in his garage the morning after he pulled in and the car was naturally un-drivable. This happened to him a number of times and MB couldn't seem to fix it or even find the problem. My MB sales rep told me not to consider ABC at the time I looked and after reading that guys posts later on I knew why. Another option was Keyless-go which Lexus of course now has and which both of us like very much. When I shopped in 2001 I was intrigued by the Keyless go system but none of the inbound S-class cars had it nor did any of the showroom cars. When I asked why I was told by the MB sales rep that they were having problems with it and had put a hold on it until the cause was found and cured. The third thing might have been the timeport (if that was the name) phone. Naturally the other thing they offered was a 12cyl engine if you went the S-600 route. Lastly - MB may have had more airbags than Lexus. I do know someone who totalled an E-class (the guy fell asleep at the wheel) and walked away unharmed. It was really the steering wheel air bag that saved him (so he would have been fine in most cars) but nevertheless I'll never question MB's commottmment and leadership in this area. I haven't kept track of Volvo but they were well known in the past as the mfr. at the head of the class in safety.
On the other hand Lexus had the single based DVD nav system, the ML stereo and the 6 in-dash CD system. MB had answers to all three but they were way short of the Lexus benchmarks.
#4777 of 24726 edspider1
Apr 21, 2004 (6:17 pm)
And I agree wiith your comments on S-class plastic. The interior of the S-class - as a whole - left a lot to be desired for an $80k+ car. Misses the mark badly as far as I am concerned. Maybe MB will incorporate some Maybach goodies. That car has the best interior I've ever seen. But in sub $150k cars Lexus, Jaguar and Audi are the kingpins for me right now. I do love the antique walniut wood on the black leather custom/ultra LS.