Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Apr 03, 2004 (11:30 am)
All I can ask is how do you know any of this to be fact? There are hundreds of thousands of diesel Benz owners that have been waiting for a new diesel. Diesels don't sell here...ah...hello nobody is selling any diesels except Volksagen. Why don't you wait and see how the new 2005 E320 CDI does before predicting the future. If it doesn't sell then maybe you'd have a point, until you're just merely speculating. Gas prices went up about what two years ago too and nothing happened people still bought SUVs and gas guzzling cars by the truckload. Have you seen the record sales for these things for 2003? They took fifty-three percent of the market. Now if we have a truly sustained period of high gas prices, then things will change, this is only a blip...as or right now (disclaimer). Suvs will go first and then gas guzzling luxury cars, one group has enough money not to make knee-jerk buying decisions, ther other doesn't. You seem to think that everybody will want a hybrid and that will never be, some people will always want a "regular" car, only once hybrids take off the automakers will have make there regular offerings even more fuel efficient.
I'm curious as to why you would you get excited about a 400hp LS, when such hp is useless per all the talk done in here? Great gas mileage for a 400hp car that most Lexus owner will never push??? Doesn't make any sense. BTW, 400hp won't cut it anymore 500 is becoming the standard for performance biased cars.
#4582 of 24726 edspider1
Apr 03, 2004 (11:32 am)
Best of luck with the car. It's a fabulous car and a joy to drive. You've also got one of the last flint mica with black interiors. The interior on this thing in black is a knockout and the outside refinements make the car beautiful on the exterior. The antique walnut wood trim belongs on Baker furniture.
Have you noticed the quickness of this car both at 0-60 and in torque. I'm dying to just floor it but I can already see the flashing lights in my rear view mirrow. I can't believe its the same engine as before. Plus the engine is even quieter - if that's possible.
I'll take the hybrid version in 2007.
merc1 - I said 350-400 for the mainstream car. I'm also talking annual sales not accumulated sales in diesels. Besides Toyota will have no problem bringing a diesel to market if they want to. But the diesel just won't work here. I don't know anything for a fact. Just know my business intuition and its usually right. By the way I couldn't care less who copies who. Just give me a great reliable car.
Apr 03, 2004 (11:38 am)
All I can say is go look at the SL and SLK, they are very different, ditto for the CLK and CL. There is no way these cars are twins, they don't even share the same platforms, only one with no experience with either would say something like that. Sure they all carry the MB theme, but they're very much different cars. If you see them both regularly you should know they don't affect each others sales. I'm willing to bet that if you drove the current SLK and SL you'd see that the SLK doesn't even compare. Saying the SL and SLK are twins are like saying the IS300 and GS300 are twins, or the LS and ES....similar cars sure, but different in execution.
You're right about VW and Audi, they're insanely planning for Audi and VW to go model for model at the upper reaches, while it will produce some interesting cars, it doesn't make sense.
Apr 03, 2004 (11:44 am)
Even 350-400hp for a mainstream car isn't going to shock anyone, the next S is rumored (just like you're doing with the LS) to have a 355hp V8 as the entry level car, with a 400hp V8 as the next car up and then you know the AMG and V12 versions will be much higher. BMW and Audi aren't going to sit still with hp either.
The appeal will be if Lexus does these hp numbers with better gas mileage, which I don't doubt they will, but that will probably be the only advantage of buying one, 400hp is still 400hp.
I know you were talking about annual sales, my point is that many a Benz diesel owner have been waiting so they shouldn't have a problem moving diesels here again, there is a pent-up demand. There is no way for either of us to know whether or not they'll be successful, its all speculation at this point.
Apr 03, 2004 (12:04 pm)
You miss a point or my point about powerful engines. I never said or meant to say I wouldn't use the power or that Lexus drivers wouldn't use the power. I said the reality of everyday driving is that road conditions rarely - 1% of the time maybe - allow you to take advantage of that power. Hence I rather the money be spent on things that you can enjoy all the time. Read my other post - I'm dying to floor this new car, the power it has is awesome and it's only a 290HP (feels much more powerful though).
What I absolutely hate to see is people - usually kids - weaving in and out of traffic endangering people to show off. Four kids just got killed on a winding stretch of the Northern state pkwy in Long Island - where I've seen that type of driving often. They were going so fast the car got split in two by a large tree. Too much power - in the wrong hands - borders on irresponsibility. Remember the speed posts of a few weeks ago - it was in that area of Long Island. But ultimately its the driver that needs to control themself.
Apr 03, 2004 (12:16 pm)
Well I don't think kids will be driving E55s, M5s or 400hp LS400hs. Any car can be dangerous in the wrong hands. My earlier post was about something someone said a while back about how useless all this hp was when it pertains to a MB or BMW, but reading all of today's posts it seems to be implied that a 400hp Lexus will somehow be magically safer.
I say find the "correct" road and circumstance and floor that thing, safely.
#4587 of 24726 Mercedes isn't a luxury car w/o the goodies -- it ain't generically luxury
Apr 03, 2004 (1:56 pm)
Right, can you sell an E class MB with steel wheels, cloth interior, a dorky radio and a 2 liter engine in the U.S. as a luxury car. Nope.
Why? Because IMHO it isn't a luxury car. It's just a Mercedes, like the taxi's all over Europe. They aren't Luxury Taxi's. They are just taxis.
I wasn't trying to make the Lexus/Toyota luxury number as great as the Mercedes numbers, which are still larger. But you can't compare the Toyota/Lexus number to all of MB's sales, because they definitely are not all luxury cars in the same class as the Toyota/Luxury cars (or anyone elses for that matter).
#4589 of 24726 Re merc1's message #4572
Apr 03, 2004 (2:04 pm)
Now the host is going to chastise me for this, I guess, but here's a perfect example of why spelling and grammar matter on this board and everywhere else: merc says (not to pick on you, bud): "Only people who own E55s and M5s drive wreckless." I assume he means "reckless," which changes the meaning of the sentence 180 degrees. Or maybe he really meant "wreckless," but who's to know?
OK, host, let me have it.
#4590 of 24726 E-Class Taxi
Apr 03, 2004 (2:17 pm)
Hmmm, not too long ago I flagged down a W211 E-Class taxi in Paris. On the way to CDG the driver asked me how I liked his cab, and when I looked around I realized that it was easily as nice as my 530i, decked out in leather with all of the electronic goodies. Then as he merged from the on-ramp to the left lane (in one sweeping move) of the Autoroute I was stunned at the acceleration. When I got out at the airport, I peeked at the trunk lid; hmmm, an E320CDI (I hear that there is now an E400CDI, must be damn fast from say 20-120). Not too shabby.
Not saying that all Paris taxis are like that, but this one was great.