Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Mar 23, 2004 (10:45 pm)
Well its pretty much like I stated before, you've only rode and driven the S, but haven't owned one, but you are much more of an expert than me, though I've done the same things. Makes sense.
The fact that Lexus designed the sport version of the LS to out handle the base S-Class is their problem not Mercedes'. What kind of excuse is that? Secondly, I have not seen one single report in which an S-Class with the sport option gave up too much ride comfort, nor have I experienced it myself, having actually driven a 2002 S500 Sport more than a few times.
I never said anyone buying an S-Class was buying it for sport, my point is that the option is there and it's a real sport option, unlike the LS, which is merely a tire upgrade. The S Sport package transforms the car in looks and capability. Guess what the S-Class now offers just the option of upgraded wheels and tires too (without the body work). My point is that with an S-Class Sport you'll pay more and you'll get more than the LS' so-called "sport" option.
You should read up on the 7-Series board, they talk about driving far more than anyone on this board. The sportiness of the 7-Series is indeed a selling point, and if we're guessing you know I'd guess that more 7 owners use it than S or LS buyers.
You're right about Maybach. I've said all along the car was too close to Mercedes inside and out. It is too much like a super S600 than an entirely different i.e. special car. Both Maybach and Rolls fell short in 2003. I said from the beginning that neither of them would be able to sell 1000 cars a year in the U.S. There are just too many high-end cars competing for the most elusive of buyers in the 200k+ market. The dealer here has had one on the floor for a few months now too. Still they did move over 160 of them last year, at 300K+ a pop, and that was from June, not a full year.
Technically Mercedes didn't "create" Maybach, they revived it. Wilhelm Maybach was instrumental in the very first "Mercedes" cars and the brand the carried his name made some of the best cars on earth long ago. I know, I know it doesn't matter in today's market and isn't memorable to anyone under 80 years old..lol.
Mar 24, 2004 (2:49 am)
Correction to the above post. The sales goal for Maybach in the U.S. was 400-500 cars a year, not 1000. The 1000 unit goal was for worldwide sales.
Mar 24, 2004 (5:36 am)
Actually you must be corrected. The S-class sport models are just wheels/tires and bodywork upgrades.
The LS430 includes wheel/tire upgrade and a slight suspension upgrade.
Mar 24, 2004 (5:38 am)
"Well its pretty much like I stated before, you've only rode and driven the S, but haven't owned one, but you are much more of an expert than me, though I've done the same things. Makes sense."
Well, ljflx, owns a LS430 and has driven S-class. Meanwhile you have driven one and not the other and you write like you have driven both, which you obviously haven't.
#4491 of 24726 maxhonda99
Mar 24, 2004 (5:46 am)
Actually you must be corrected. The Sport models have firmer Airmatic shock settings than the regular S-Class cars. Not to mention the S has an adjustable air suspension to start with. Plus there is the ABC option. A sportier S-Class can be had, one that is sportier than any version of the LS430 at least up until now.
"Meanwhile you have driven one and not the other and you write like you have driven both, which you obviously haven't."
Wrong again, obviously you haven't been paying attention. Lets stay current here. I've driven the LS430. Granted things may have changed for 2004 in the LS' favor, as I haven't driven an 04' LS. So I'll take his word for the 2004 model.
Mar 24, 2004 (6:29 am)
I apologize for the slight error on the part of the airmatic suspension. But you were still mistaken by saying the LS430 is merely a tire upgrade.
And as you say "ABC is a option". That is another option on top of the already steep $5K+ premium for a sport package that returns only minor improvements in handling.
Mar 24, 2004 (6:30 am)
"Wrong again, obviously you haven't been paying attention. Lets stay current here. I've driven the LS430."
Right again, I haven't been paying attention. I actually do some work during the 8am to 5pm work hours.
#4494 of 24726 maxhonda99
Mar 24, 2004 (6:40 am)
I hate to keep saying this, but go back over the posts here. I only said the LS' sport option was a tire upgrade because ljfx said it was, I clearly stated that I hadn't checked the Lexus site to confirm any of what he said, it really wasn't that big of a deal. I'm not the one you need to mention this to.
Secondly, the ABC provides more than minor handling improvements. Look at the handling numbers for the S-Class in the last Car and Driver comparo with ABC+Sport pk compared to the previous S-Classes they tested without either, hardly minor differences I agree it is an expensive option but it is there.
"I actually do some work during the 8am to 5pm work hours."
Must we go here? I'm glad you do some work during those hours. If you'll notice most of the time I post late night, hint: I work a different shift from you.
Mar 24, 2004 (7:03 am)
You mention ABC+sport package. the standard sport package does not include ABC. Is ABC not another couple of thousand $$$ option on top of the regular sport package? And as I remember the regular sport package for $5K+ offers slight improvements in handling, basically due to the tire size and compound difference.
In my last post I was referring to the slight improvements in handling with just the sport package, not including ABC. I get C&D and read the review. The S500 is a great car with or without sport and ABC.
Mar 24, 2004 (9:20 am)
Here is your paragraph about the sport option, I see no reference to Ifjx comments about a tire change only. I own an LS430 ultra (01) and there is a noticable difference when I set the car in Sport mode (without changing the tires)
I have not driven the 04 Sport but would assume it has been upgrade substantually.
Here is what is available with my Sport Suspension..Stiffer springs, more aggressive shock absorber damping rates, a thicker rear stablizer bar for reduced understeer and special suspension bushings for a more immediate feel of the road, 17 in. tires.