High End Luxury Cars

24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

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#4483 of 24700 interesting story by ljflx Mar 22, 2004 (2:57 pm)
In of all places - the January edition of Architectual Digest with a focus on Mercedes interior design team in Milan. It was interesting to read about how the approval process of automobile design works and is balanced between interior and exterior design teams. The latter group in conjunction with the engineers still wields the power but some of the power is shifting to the interior design team for the first time. Dental Office reading but overall AD did a big story on automotive design in its January edition that is worth reading. Pat - Edmunds gets its third straight JD Powers award. Edmunds is getting up there with Lexus.
#4484 of 24700 Reviewing my 2001 car choices by ljflx Mar 22, 2004 (6:00 pm)
Now that I'm about to order the 2004 LS430 I looked back at how well the cars I looked at in 2001 have done as per Edmunds used car reports. The 5 cars I looked extensively at were the 2001 E430 4-matic (judged too small but desired initially because of the AWD), the Audi A8L (always loved its looks and AWD but overall found it disappointing), the S430 and S500 and the LS430. The S-class cars, particularly the S500 and the LS430 were far superior to both of the other cars for my tastes and preferences. The prices and residuals were - E430 $61.5k with a residual of $39k. Today the dealer retail is $37k and the consumers rated the car at 8.2. The A8L was $72.4k and had a residual of $39k. Today the dealer retail is a bit under $38k and consumer rating is 7.9. The S430 was $76.1 and had a residual of $49k. Today the dealer retail is $46k and the consumer rating is 8.3. The S500 was $85.3k and had a residual of $55k. Today the dealer retail is $52k and the consumer rating is the same 8.3. Finally the LS430 was $61.5k and had a residual of $37.5k. Today the dealer retail is $42k and the consumer rating is a sky high 96 (pretty clear this group of buyesr are real happy). Since the residuals were my buyouts I would have expected all the cars to have dealer retail above those figures but only the LS430 can make that claim - by a fairly wide margin. I have no doubt I made the best choice then and will go for another ride. But some of these guys have really been burned on the residuals and the strength of the dollar worsens it even more.
#4485 of 24700 Phaeton by edspider1 Mar 23, 2004 (6:52 am)
Has anyone seriously looked at this newcomer? I'm trading my 01 LS for an 04 shortly, but I just had to check this one out. I really liked it. The interior was gorgeous. I didn't take it for a test drive as I didn't want to get hooked. I doubt I would buy one though. Even the V8 has a gas guzzler tax (15/20 hw). It priced like an LS Ultra. But I doubt it would hold its value as well. But really, if you can find a VW dealer, take a peek.
#4486 of 24700 all the teleaid systems have a sneak and listen feature by ikotoyan Mar 23, 2004 (8:29 pm)
Can anything be done about how mb uses its teleaid, it says right in the contract that they can listen in on people without them knowing, so now i can have people listening in on conversations in the car. is a car not a private place anymore? anything all of us who want a safety feature , but dont want to allow anyone to listen in on us as they wish can do about this?
#4487 of 24700 ljflx by merc1 Mar 23, 2004 (10:45 pm)
Well its pretty much like I stated before, you've only rode and driven the S, but haven't owned one, but you are much more of an expert than me, though I've done the same things. Makes sense. The fact that Lexus designed the sport version of the LS to out handle the base S-Class is their problem not Mercedes'. What kind of excuse is that? Secondly, I have not seen one single report in which an S-Class with the sport option gave up too much ride comfort, nor have I experienced it myself, having actually driven a 2002 S500 Sport more than a few times. I never said anyone buying an S-Class was buying it for sport, my point is that the option is there and it's a real sport option, unlike the LS, which is merely a tire upgrade. The S Sport package transforms the car in looks and capability. Guess what the S-Class now offers just the option of upgraded wheels and tires too (without the body work). My point is that with an S-Class Sport you'll pay more and you'll get more than the LS' so-called "sport" option. You should read up on the 7-Series board, they talk about driving far more than anyone on this board. The sportiness of the 7-Series is indeed a selling point, and if we're guessing you know I'd guess that more 7 owners use it than S or LS buyers. You're right about Maybach. I've said all along the car was too close to Mercedes inside and out. It is too much like a super S600 than an entirely different i.e. special car. Both Maybach and Rolls fell short in 2003. I said from the beginning that neither of them would be able to sell 1000 cars a year in the U.S. There are just too many high-end cars competing for the most elusive of buyers in the 200k+ market. The dealer here has had one on the floor for a few months now too. Still they did move over 160 of them last year, at 300K+ a pop, and that was from June, not a full year. Technically Mercedes didn't "create" Maybach, they revived it. Wilhelm Maybach was instrumental in the very first "Mercedes" cars and the brand the carried his name made some of the best cars on earth long ago. I know, I know it doesn't matter in today's market and isn't memorable to anyone under 80 years old..lol. M
#4488 of 24700 by merc1 Mar 24, 2004 (2:49 am)
Correction to the above post. The sales goal for Maybach in the U.S. was 400-500 cars a year, not 1000. The 1000 unit goal was for worldwide sales. M
#4489 of 24700 by maxhonda99 Mar 24, 2004 (5:36 am)
merc1, Actually you must be corrected. The S-class sport models are just wheels/tires and bodywork upgrades. The LS430 includes wheel/tire upgrade and a slight suspension upgrade.
#4490 of 24700 by maxhonda99 Mar 24, 2004 (5:38 am)
merc1, "Well its pretty much like I stated before, you've only rode and driven the S, but haven't owned one, but you are much more of an expert than me, though I've done the same things. Makes sense." Well, ljflx, owns a LS430 and has driven S-class. Meanwhile you have driven one and not the other and you write like you have driven both, which you obviously haven't.
#4491 of 24700 maxhonda99 by merc1 Mar 24, 2004 (5:46 am)
Actually you must be corrected. The Sport models have firmer Airmatic shock settings than the regular S-Class cars. Not to mention the S has an adjustable air suspension to start with. Plus there is the ABC option. A sportier S-Class can be had, one that is sportier than any version of the LS430 at least up until now. "Meanwhile you have driven one and not the other and you write like you have driven both, which you obviously haven't." Wrong again, obviously you haven't been paying attention. Lets stay current here. I've driven the LS430. Granted things may have changed for 2004 in the LS' favor, as I haven't driven an 04' LS. So I'll take his word for the 2004 model. M
#4492 of 24700 by maxhonda99 Mar 24, 2004 (6:29 am)
merc1, I apologize for the slight error on the part of the airmatic suspension. But you were still mistaken by saying the LS430 is merely a tire upgrade. And as you say "ABC is a option". That is another option on top of the already steep $5K+ premium for a sport package that returns only minor improvements in handling.